21 replies to this topic

[filipa]

Hello,

I work in a tomato industry. We have an HACCP Plan and we are BRC accredited.

How we validate each CCP?
And anyone have an example of the record of this validation???


Please, help me...

Filipa

[Charles.C]

Dear Filipa,

The quickest way is to look for a model HACCP plan similar to yours on the IT with the same CCP and control measure / critical limits etc.

Then quote it.

Rgds / Charles.C

[filipa]

Many thanks for your reply...

Yes, your suggest is good, but it is not easy to achieve an haccp for tomato paste.

(sorry my ignorance, but what is "IT"??... )

ahaha... I'm Portuguese...

Filipa

[Charles.C]

Dear Filipa,

IT = Internet

(My apologies, thought this was an International Abbreviation )

Rgds Charles.C

[Charles Chew]

I work in a tomato industry. We have an HACCP Plan and we are BRC accredited.

How we validate each CCP?
And anyone have an example of the record of this validation???

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Interestingly, your organization is BRC accredited but from your question raised, it appears that your HACCP plan is (not or inadequately validated by scientifically based) critical limit(s) to support the monitoring of each identified CCP. If that is the case, members would be better directed to address your concerns.

[filipa]

Hello Charles,

We have not been yet audit this year, with the new standards. In our HACCP we validated some CCP based on scientif studies, legislation, etc . We have the suport documentation, but in our HACCP Plan, we don´t have a section "validation". You undestand? I have been audit by a Client (he is a BRC auditor"), and he said that it will be better in the HACCP Plan, where you have (hazard/prev. measures/critica, limits/(monitorin,g..), put a Column with "validation".

I never have see this before.. I will be grateful if anyone have an example...

Best Regards,
Filipa

[Charles Chew]

We have not been yet audit this year, with the new standards. In our HACCP we validated some CCP based on scientif studies, legislation, etc . We have the suport documentation, but in our HACCP Plan, we don´t have a section "validation". You undestand

Hi Filipa, Yes I understand your situation better now. With regards to the issue of validation section / column - IMO it is a matter of preference. There is certainly nothing wrong in following the guidance of the 7 codex principles. You can either have the extra section in your HACCP Plan or have a separate "CCP Validation Summary or Table".

Whichever way it is done, it does not make the food any more or less safer.

Regards
Charles

[filipa]

Hi Charles,

many thanks for your comment.

I will elaborate a "CCP validation Summary". For each CCP I will put the reference of the documentation that support/validate the CCP.

Best Regards,
Filipa

[Charles.C]

Dear Filipa,

Hope the "rapid" responses to yr various queries have been useful.

Is yr product in a bottle or a can ?

If the latter, I presume the CCPs are typically specified by canning - type regulations. Would be interested to know a little more about yr process, eg how many CCPs, all post sterilisation ?


Best Rgds / Charles.C

[filipa]

Hello again Charles,

This forum is very interesting and very useful...

We process Tomato paste and tomato pizza sauces in 3 diferent type of packaging: Aseptic bags in drums, cans and pouches.

We have the support of legislation, codex alimentarius (specifically for the type of packaging), for the most CCP's.

Regarding the CCP "metal detector" in the Can line, I have see some discussion here in the forum... We have considered "metal hazard", based on FDA guidelines, but in the critical limits we consider the size of the particles that we use to test the metal detector (1,5mm Fe; 3,0 mm non- Fe and 3,0 mm SS). To validate this CCP, we think to consider the sensivity of the equipament... I have some doubts on this point...

Thank you,

Filipa

[cazyncymru]

I have attached the checklist that i use.
The auditor that I used for BRC last year thought it was one of the best he's seen due to it's simplicity.

I'm happy to share

C x

Attached Files

•  HACCP_Validation_Checklist2.doc   74.5KB   1112 downloads

[a_andhika]

Hello again Charles, This forum is very interesting and very useful... We process Tomato paste and tomato pizza sauces in 3 diferent type of packaging: Aseptic bags in drums, cans and pouches. We have the support of legislation, codex alimentarius (specifically for the type of packaging), for the most CCP's. Regarding the CCP "metal detector" in the Can line, I have see some discussion here in the forum... We have considered "metal hazard", based on FDA guidelines, but in the critical limits we consider the size of the particles that we use to test the metal detector (1,5mm Fe; 3,0 mm non- Fe and 3,0 mm SS). To validate this CCP, we think to consider the sensivity of the equipament... I have some doubts on this point... Thank you, Filipa

Dear Filipa,

IMO, the best way to validate the metal detector is pass the metal with size in accodance with your specs, then see it if the metal detector was responding. This way also can be used for the periodically verification of your metal detector.

Regards,


Arya

[filipa]

Dear All,

many thanks for your replies...

Cazyncymaru, many thanks for your document.. I think it is a very good document to check in the annual HACCP review..

Filipa

[Betty08]

HI Filipa I was wondering how did you end up validating the metal detector im having trouble.


thanks
betty

[Charles.C]

Dear betty,

Welcome to the forum !

As (I think) Filipa noted, many people define the ccp / crit.limits via the sensitivity parameters if a metal detector is in use. Some people argue this is too "similar" to a calibration however IMEX autitors usually accept this presentation (through familiarity ? .)
Nonetheless you can find alternative viewpoints (many on this forum) which are presumably equally acceptable if properly implemented, eg a part of a USFDA guidance viewpoint is here -

 glass__metal_control__usfda_juice_haccp__.doc   35.5KB   503 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

[Betty08]

HELLO Charles!

Thank you for your quick reply and time. It was helpful. This validation reponse is very important for me since it is my last question to answer for my auditor.

Have you been working with Haccp for awhile?

Thanks
Betty

[Charles.C]

Dear Betty,

Some model Plan examples for metal detector (Canadian) favouring the sensitivity layout style are here

 haccp_metal_jerky.htm   25.56KB   380 downloads
 haccp_metal_pizza.htm   21.74KB   301 downloads

Examples more like the styles suggested in my previous post are here (US)

http://seafoodhaccp....le_pdf/Ch20.pdf
(esp. pgs 8-9)

As you can see there is some overlap of all the options. Personally I find the pizza style easier to present although the exact logic might be a bit more questionable (and a comment in "verif." would be moved to corrective action by me). Hv previously used 3 formats with validation refs like the above with no major auditor problems (except when had no metal detector ) although the frequency of monitoring obviously relates to staffing / how much you wish to impress the auditor and/or how often you hv rejects. Most customers IMEX are (not surprisingly) happier to see mention of numbers around 2mm as critical limits despite what the FDA guidelines may allow.

Additionally you will note the lack of the word “validation” in above examples. As you may know this is partly a result of the US preferred working with “verification” as a primary terminology category. There are many threads here on the difference in meaning and practical distinction. Normally IMEX if you include a “Validation” section full of refs for each plan somewhere in the HACCP manual, eg before a section on verification, it works OK (implies you did it before starting production ). This sectioning format is convenient for repeated use of links to examples such as above. If there are no refs, hv to specify a procedure / objectives and do a challenge test or something similar.
Re yr last query, many years, probably too many. Do QA people ever get rich ?.

Rgds / Charles.C

[siddhu]

Hi Filipa,

I read your question and also seen the replies

You can have reference from codex for

PROPOSED DRAFT GUIDELINES FOR THE VALIDATION OF FOOD SAFETY CONTROL MEASURES CAC/GL 69 - 2008

I have attached same file
I think this will solve all your queries

Best regards,
Siddhu

Hello,

I work in a tomato industry. We have an HACCP Plan and we are BRC accredited.

How we validate each CCP?
And anyone have an example of the record of this validation???


Please, help me...

Filipa

Attached Files

•  cxg_069e.pdf   133.77KB   558 downloads

[a_andhika]

Dear Siddhu,

I think its a very good reference. It just like a literature to conduct a scientific research:) However, the Re-validation section only mention that validation need to be re-taken when some failure or changing occur. Is it means that, if no changing occurs, then we dont need to validate our process again (just once in a lifetime)? From the way I see, the validation still need to be verified in certain period of time, to ensure it still effective.

The other highlighted part by me is the design of pilot scale to mimics the industry scale. I can understand if it was designed for quality and quantity purpose. But for the Food Saftey purpose, doesnt it just too risky? Consider that the different scale may give significant deviations. Any comments?


Regards,


Arya

[Sheilag]

I have attached the checklist that i use.
The auditor that I used for BRC last year thought it was one of the best he's seen due to it's simplicity.

I'm happy to share

C x

this is fantastic!  thanks for sharing this!!  

[usmanashraf]

Hello,

I work in a tomato industry. We have an HACCP Plan and we are BRC accredited.

How we validate each CCP?
And anyone have an example of the record of this validation???


Please, help me...

Filipa

Have you prepared the CCP validation summary?

[Charles.C]

Have you prepared the CCP validation summary?

 

This refers to a 10 year old post.