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#1 Lucas

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 07:04 AM

Hello all,



I have got a friend who produces a very well know local delicacy (a fabulous small cake) and he asked me if I could implement the ISO 22k for certification in his restaurant. I said yes, immediately, but then when I was driving home I started to think (as he doesn’t have a HACCP plan): how is it possible to implement the HACCP plan in a restaurant which produces and serves a lot of dishes and desserts?

How should I right down the flowcharts? Should I make 2 or 3 general flowcharts, as long as all process steps are referred, or should I make one flowchart for every dish and for every dessert?

This is something that has been in my head for more than a week and I can’t get answers.

Before I started to work in the food industry (where I think is everything much easier to implement, as there less products), I worked 6 years for a food service company which served thousands of meals everyday in different places (catering). We used a generic HACCP where we put all the process steps that could happen when we cook something. That was really generic (and we were not ISO 22000 certified). We didn’t mention what products we used, only the steps. The type of: 1- Reception of goods; 2- Take off the cartons; 3- Preparation; 4- Hot cooking; 5- Hot Preparation (slice, break, split, etc.); 6- Hot hold; 7- Serving.

Can anybody help me? I should I make the HACCP flowcharts? And when it comes down to OPRPs, won’t they be too difficult to implement?

Just for the records, this is a beautiful restaurant. At lunch it works as a restaurant and at night it works as a VIP café, with a lot of ancient cakes (some with 250 years), teas, coffees and chocolate.

Thanks in advance.

Lucas

#2 Simon

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 08:55 PM

BUMP for Lucas. Can anyone help. :unsure:


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#3 Lucas

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 08:01 AM

Hello again...

There's nobody to help me?

Please come forward. I really nead to clarify this.

Lucas



#4 Suzuki

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:45 AM

Firstly, I like to confirm that setting up an ISO 22K for a food service restaurant is indeed not a problem at all. To establish the process flows - you would first need to review the restaurant menu and then group the food types into these various processes.

"Receive, Prepare and Serve"; "Receive, Prepare, Cook and Serve"; "Receive, Prepare, Cook, Hold, Serve"; "Receive, Prepare, Cook, Cooling, Freeze, Thaw, Re-Heat and Serve" (If blast freezer is used, ignore cooling step) - These are merely the categories. ISO 22K demands you to provide more details of the actual process steps for each category.

Once the process flows are prepared, you can proceed to identifying the various potential hazards to determine your HACCP Plan and OPR Plan.

Its not too difficult to document the PRP and the FSMS Manual. Despite numerous comments made in this forum that a Food Safety Manual is not required by the ISO 22K Standard, it is very much to the contrary. All the best



#5 Lucas

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:37 PM

Hello Susuki,

If it as you say, it is something very close to what I used to do when I was working for that catering company a few years ago. It doesn't seem to be very difficult.

As I am working with 3 standards at the same time: Iso 22k, BRC and IFS. Sometimes I feel I am loosing it.

I was thinking on doing what you just wrote on last post, but I wanted to check if I was thinking right. The company where I am going to implement the iso 22k is a VIP place, so I cannot afford of not getting the certificate.

Anyway, I think it will be far more difficult to implement the iso 22k on a restaurant than in an industry site. I am starting to imagine the supplier approval process (small suppliers like... supermarkets, small shops!!), the Traceability (which I think will be a crazy matter), etc.

Lucas



#6 Suzuki

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:54 AM

I am glad to hear that your setting up of the ISO 22K FSMS would not be a problem. The fundamentals to risk assessments are the same as with all FS systems. It is only the structures that is different.

And, you are so right about the difficulties in engaging, monitoring and educating small suppliers on traceability particularly delivery conditions. Frankly, the ingredient traceability is not difficult if you can get the OPRP properly set up to track the supplier traceability system which needs to be in place first if not, internal trace tagging is needed.

However since this restaurant is VIP status, I am sure the owner would be able to control and manage the supply chain. Lucas - its a good challenge!



#7 Esther

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:48 PM

Dear Lucas

I am just very curious. Why does a restaurant decide to implement ISO 22000? Why the interest of been certified? AS far as I know and I understand, these standards have a commercial value more than anything else? Are the customers going to appreciate that effort?

Would not be more easier to have a good HACCP and take some ISO9001 requirements?

Anyway, just very curious.

Regards
Esther



#8 Chef

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 10:50 AM

I'd just like to echo the statment above. God HACCP plan is mainly what's needed. Managing food safety in catering level 4 will give you all the tools you need.


A-J Chef

#9 siddhu

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:27 AM

Hello all,



I have got a friend who produces a very well know local delicacy (a fabulous small cake) and he asked me if I could implement the ISO 22k for certification in his restaurant. I said yes, immediately, but then when I was driving home I started to think (as he doesn’t have a HACCP plan): how is it possible to implement the HACCP plan in a restaurant which produces and serves a lot of dishes and desserts?

How should I right down the flowcharts? Should I make 2 or 3 general flowcharts, as long as all process steps are referred, or should I make one flowchart for every dish and for every dessert?

This is something that has been in my head for more than a week and I can’t get answers.

Before I started to work in the food industry (where I think is everything much easier to implement, as there less products), I worked 6 years for a food service company which served thousands of meals everyday in different places (catering). We used a generic HACCP where we put all the process steps that could happen when we cook something. That was really generic (and we were not ISO 22000 certified). We didn’t mention what products we used, only the steps. The type of: 1- Reception of goods; 2- Take off the cartons; 3- Preparation; 4- Hot cooking; 5- Hot Preparation (slice, break, split, etc.); 6- Hot hold; 7- Serving.

Can anybody help me? I should I make the HACCP flowcharts? And when it comes down to OPRPs, won’t they be too difficult to implement?

Just for the records, this is a beautiful restaurant. At lunch it works as a restaurant and at night it works as a VIP café, with a lot of ancient cakes (some with 250 years), teas, coffees and chocolate.

Thanks in advance.

Lucas



Dear Lucas,

Hi

Presently I am working for implementation of ISO22000 in centralized kitchen.
I can assist you in this

Best regards,
siddhu

#10 Lucas

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:14 PM

Hello again,

First of all I would like to address my first words to Chef and Esther.
My client just asked me for ISO 22000 certification. The restaurant has two different businesses. One is producing and serving meals, the other one (the core of the business) is producing sweet pastries an ancient cakes, some recipes have more than 300 years old. Some of them are brand new, even though very sought after. So the owner decided start selling the product also by catalogue in Portugal, Spain, France, UK, amongst other countries. In this case it will be an added value having the ISO stamp.

So these are the reasons for ISO 22000 certification. It's going to be a real battle.

Siddhu, thanks for your kindness offer. I will keep in touch. I hope we can swop some experiences and benefict our work.

But appart from that I have another challenge, which has started already: implementing ISO 22000 in the canteen of a children school (ages between 0 an 10 years). This is going to be another different experience. They have already a very well implemented System. Although they want to have the ISO flag, as some of their competitors have already attained ISO 22000 certification.

When a client wants something we cannot say "no". Also, we can only progress if we accept different challenges. I have learned that by working with HACCP, ISO 9001, BRC and IFS.

Thanks a lot for everything
Lucas



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#11 althene

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 02:07 PM

hi lucas and to everyone!

i have worked in a hotel before and believe me it just looked hard but in truth its kinda easy establishing their HACCP plan.

I would suggest you group the items that generally have the same preparation steps. At our pastry kitchen before, we separated those that have almost the same cooling time and where not that critical from those that were critical and were very high in moisture.

Ex. all our cookies almost had the same HACCP, same as with bread without fillings. (difference though was in every product description)
Cakes on the other hand were dependent on ingredients, but those that did not have high risk ingredients were also grouped together.
We also tried reviewing the ingredients list and tried to look for alternatives for critical or high risk items for us to lessen the food safety risk.

The key is actually looking at what is common at your items. Start from there and it would be easy. Just a matter of cut and paste and slight editing.

It would be easier though if you start establishing the PRPs and OPRPs first including the HACCP prior to jumping to the actual ISO22000. (in my opinion that is)

I am hoping this had help, just send me a message if you have further questions.



#12 OZLEM ACIR

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 12:01 PM

Hi Lucas,

I have been working in catering company. I have also implemented ISO 22000 to our system. We have 15 types of groups of recipes.

If you need any help,

I will be there.



#13 Simon

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 03:30 PM

I'd just like to echo the statment above. God HACCP plan is mainly what's needed. Managing food safety in catering level 4 will give you all the tools you need.

Well that really would be taking HACCP to the next level. :smile:

Hi Lucas,

I have been working in catering company. I have also implemented ISO 22000 to our system. We have 15 types of groups of recipes.

If you need any help,

I will be there.

That's a kind offer Ozlem - if Lucas is still around and pursuing this project I'm sure he will take you up on it. If not I'm sure there will be others with a similar need quite soon.

Regards,
Simon

Best Regards,

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#14 Saviour

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 11:30 AM

Hi!!
Can You suggest some food safety standards other than ISO22000, appicable in catering industry?

Regards



#15 ganesha

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 12:11 PM

Firstly, I like to confirm that setting up an ISO 22K for a food service restaurant is indeed not a problem at all. To establish the process flows - you would first need to review the restaurant menu and then group the food types into these various processes.

"Receive, Prepare and Serve"; "Receive, Prepare, Cook and Serve"; "Receive, Prepare, Cook, Hold, Serve"; "Receive, Prepare, Cook, Cooling, Freeze, Thaw, Re-Heat and Serve" (If blast freezer is used, ignore cooling step) - These are merely the categories. ISO 22K demands you to provide more details of the actual process steps for each category.

Once the process flows are prepared, you can proceed to identifying the various potential hazards to determine your HACCP Plan and OPR Plan.

Its not too difficult to document the PRP and the FSMS Manual. Despite numerous comments made in this forum that a Food Safety Manual is not required by the ISO 22K Standard, it is very much to the contrary. All the best


But when you start the hazard analysis with the raw material, how do you categorise them while looking for the hazards in each of them? Is there any benchmark for the categorisation. Agree that you review the Menu and group them based on the steps above, but wouldn't you be required to do a hazard check on the raw material? And where can one get a list of hazards associated with all the things - beef, poultry, vegetables, fruits, bakery items, canned items used in large restaurants?
Would appreciate replies please.

#16 nickiiq

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 10:02 AM

hi need flow charrt and haccp for northindian style chicken curry,mutton curry.....chicken fry,fish fry......etc.....can anybody help me.....please.....



#17 clover

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 04:56 AM


Dear Lucas,

Hi

Presently I am working for implementation of ISO22000 in centralized kitchen.
I can assist you in this

Best regards,
siddhu

 

Hi Siddhu, 

 

I'm struggling in the same position as Lucas, could I connect with you for some help with regards to the above? 

 

Thanks. 

 

Best Regards,

Clover



#18 sharma

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:13 PM

hi lucas and to everyone!

i have worked in a hotel before and believe me it just looked hard but in truth its kinda easy establishing their HACCP plan.

I would suggest you group the items that generally have the same preparation steps. At our pastry kitchen before, we separated those that have almost the same cooling time and where not that critical from those that were critical and were very high in moisture.

Ex. all our cookies almost had the same HACCP, same as with bread without fillings. (difference though was in every product description)
Cakes on the other hand were dependent on ingredients, but those that did not have high risk ingredients were also grouped together.
We also tried reviewing the ingredients list and tried to look for alternatives for critical or high risk items for us to lessen the food safety risk.

The key is actually looking at what is common at your items. Start from there and it would be easy. Just a matter of cut and paste and slight editing.

It would be easier though if you start establishing the PRPs and OPRPs first including the HACCP prior to jumping to the actual ISO22000. (in my opinion that is)

I am hoping this had help, just send me a message if you have further questions.

hi 

i am new to the bakery profession and i want to develop a HACCP plan and ccp for the baking process ... was going through the discussion and found thet you may help me to develop these HACCP charts for the various items in bakery ... any kind of guidance will be appreciated 

please and thank you 

 

sharma



#19 Charles.C

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 10:37 AM

Hi sharma,

 

It's 10 year old post.

 

response may be delayed.

 

Actually I think there are many more recent threads on related topic if you search a little.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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