7 replies to this topic

[Beautykees]

Dear all,

I'm a quality manager at a nut trader and assisting processors in quality mgt with the goal of BRC certification. I've a master's degree in a non-food program (technology, policy and management), but no specific food quality mgt training.

Is it necessary (does the BRC require) to get official (BRC authorised) training regarding HACCP and internal audits?

Or is it also possible to educate yourself by reading docs and presentations?

Please give a clear perspective on this issue, thanks.

[Foodworker]

You don't have to have BRC authorised training for HACCP.

The BRC guidelines are that the HACCP Team Leader should be able to demonstrate competency in HACCP (ie through the quality of the HACCP plan) and be qualified in HACCP principles. The only guide as to the type of course is that it should be 'industry recognised'

The guidelines go on to say that the Team Leader may be an appropriately qualified external consultant, but the day to day management of the system must be with an on site individual.

Training for the rest of the team may be through external or internal course.

[Charles.C]

Dear Foodworker,

The BRC guidelines are that the HACCP Team Leader should be able to demonstrate competency in HACCP (ie through the quality of the HACCP plan) and be qualified in HACCP principles. The only guide as to the type of course is that it should be 'industry recognised'

The guidelines go on to say that the Team Leader may be an appropriately qualified external consultant, but the day to day management of the system must be with an on site individual.

I am a little confused.

So the "on-site individual" is not required to be able to show any competency in use of HACCP which includes evidence of involvement in some kind of training session. Such flexibility sounds very questionable IMO. Sort of a mezzanine-step up from the "qualified by OJT (on-the-job-training)" routine . Or perhaps i misunderstood yr post ?

Rgds / Charles.C

PS - From memory, and referring to seafood, this approach is FDA - inadmissible in USA.

[Foodworker]

Morning,

Probably my explanation is at fault.

All team members must have some form of training which of course must be recorded. This training may be an external course or some internal HACCP specific training. The phrase the Guidelines use is " Training records need to demonstrate that that adequate training has been given to all HACCP food safety team members."

The Team Leader must be "qualified in HACCP principles" The Team Leader can be an external individual or an internal member of staff.

If the Team leader is external, the Guidelines say "Where external expertise has been used in developing the HACCP plan, the site must demonstrate ownership of the requirements identified"

Ownership is a term that I dislike, but the site must be able to demonstrate that the team knows what the hazards are, understand the risks, knows how to control and monitor them and what to do when they are out of control.

Elsewhere in the Standard, the Guidelines require that external consultants are readily available.

The Standard has to be a bit flexible around this area to reflect the reality of small companies who are not big enough to employ their own technical teams.

Hope this makes more sense.

[Rosemary4]

I was in your situation when I joined my present company (plastic packaging), having only experienced the joys of ISO9001. I went on a days BRC course to understand the standard. In addition I found a very useful source of cheap training - ALLSAFE. I did a HACCP Foundation Course (about £15), sat the exam at work under invigilated conditions, sent the answers in and got a certificate. It is biased towards food. This has been acceptable for our non-food auditor and I have trained the team. A customer audit did suggest I undertook level 3 training but this was considered unecessary by the powers that be!

Audit training was done by getting someone from our assessing body in to train 4 auditors for a day. Far cheaper to buy in training and it gives you a pool of staff to call on.

Hope this helps.

[Charles.C]

Dear Foodworker,

Thanks for the expansion. Clarifies the zigzag. I now understand yr difficulty to smoothly paraphrase.

As per Rosemary, I can also remember the "team" below Sir No.1 going for a 1-day BRC 'course'. The primary knowledge base received seemed to be -

CCP = YNYN (or something like that) !

i suppose that is some kind of ownership. Certainly easy money.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Beautykees]

So I understand the following:
- the HACCP team leader must be able to show some qualifications regarding HACCP, but a short HACCP course will do
- management and employees need to be trained and records kept
- the BRC courses are not of outstanding quality

What about the internal auditor?
BRC 3.5.2 says Internal auditor is appropriately trained by competent auditors, independent.
- Do I understand internal auditors need an official course?
- Is 500 Euro for such a training a good deal?

[Foodworker]

I don't think that anybody is saying that the BRC HACCP courses are not of outstanding quality, only that there are other training courses and training routes available. The BRC courses are probably as good as many others and better than some.

With respect to the 'Short' course, this may be OK providing it is good enough to enable a HACCP plan of sufficient quality to be developed.

For Internal auditing, to quote from the BRC Guidelines -

"Auditing is an acquired skill and auditors need to be trained to ensure that they are carrying out this function effectively. Training shall include auditing skills, as well as relevant technical knowledge such as HACCP, together with appropriate product technical knowledge. Internal auditors shall be able to show by training records that they have received formal training on internal auditing, either by attendance at an external course or via training within the company"

Therefore if your company has sufficient expertise to provide a formal training programme for internal auditors, this is OK

One side effect of this clause that I have come across, is where a company uses an external consultant to do their internal audits and he/she only has ISO9000 internal auditor training, the requirements may not be fully met if the auditor has no HACCP or product technical knowledge. I have seen some very poorly presented internal audit reports in instances like this, including one which essentially just checked the spelling of the procedure being audited!


I am not too sure about the cost of courses, but if the course that you are considering is for more than one day, 500 Euros seems quite cheap to me.

Edited by Foodworker, 15 December 2010 - 02:26 PM.