14 replies to this topic

[Jam Jar]

Hello, I am back after a long time with hopefully a simple question that confuses me a lot. Many customers now ask us to get ISO 22000 certified on top of this customers always ask if our company is HACCP certified. My question. If ISO 22000 certified am I automatically certified to HACCP or do we need a separate audit and certificate for HACCP as well. I’m very confused, hope you understand.

Thanks for your help.

[Charles.C]

Dear Jamjar,

Well, on purely logical grounds, if you have a certificate from an appropriately accredited company which states you are certified to (somebody's) HACCP, you are haccp (somebody) certified; if not, you are not ??

Rgds / Charles.C

[D.R. Tirtasujana]

Hi Jam Jar,

In my understanding, HACCP is one of key elements of ISO 22000. By implementing ISO 22000, you are also implementing HACCP.
So, if you are already ISO22000 certified (by accredited certification body), then there is no need to have another HACCP certification audit.

Regards,
-Rizki-

[Charles.C]

Dear Jamjam,

As you can see, you are not the only one confused.

To avoid semantic debate as to the interpretation of “HACCP” and “being certified” (eg conceptual vs specific pieces of paper), perhaps it would be easier in yr location to simply ask yr customer. Or suggest a GFSI “approved” solution (sounds impressive !).

My (non-UK) experience (BRC / Codex HACCP documentation) is that the result can be either or both depending on customer location / company policy etc . I believe some auditors will also issue separate certificates based on one audit (easy money ). In UK, but maybe depending on yr business (???), BRC seems to (individually) dominate retail paper requirements although often accompanied by the customers’ own audit.

I'm sure other people must hv met this situation also ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[QLD]

Most of the certification companies offer a "HACCP" audit and to be honest alot of companies still keep this when they move over to SQF, ISO or BRC.

Unless a customer demands it there is not much to have the "HACCP" audit on top, well not unless you like wasting money.

In answer to your question if you have ISO 22000 then you should expect to get a HACCP cert with little or no extra work.

[David Brown]

Can I suggest that you consider FSSC 22000. This will be the programme for 2011 and beyond. It is specific for the F&B sector and amalgamates HACCP / ISO22000 with PAS220 . Certification to this will give you a great advantage.

Kind Regards
David

[Jam Jar]

Thanks all, I understand a lot better now. I have read the FSSC 22000 article on the website and I agree with David that could be a good way for us to go. On the proviso customers will accept it. I will check.

[Simon]

Any of the GFSI benchmarked standards, BRC, SQF, FSSC, IFS will serve you well as they all have HACCP as an integral core. If you achieve certification to one of the previously mentioned standards you will not need a separate HACCP certificate. If a customer asked you for one they don't know what they are asking for. One thing before deciding on which standard to follow ask your customers which one they prefer.

[Jam Jar]

We went the BRC standard route passing the audit in July this year. A difficult 18 months.
Though I don't post often I really enjoy reading the posts whenever I pop by.

Thanks all.

[Simon]

We went the BRC standard route passing the audit in July this year. A difficult 18 months.
Though I don't post often I really enjoy reading the posts whenever I pop by.

Thanks all.

That's great news, many congratulations on achieving BRC Certification.
Thanks for taking the time to let us know; I hope we've been of some use to you.

Regards,
Simon

[Chis]

Hello, I am back after a long time with hopefully a simple question that confuses me a lot. Many customers now ask us to get ISO 22000 certified on top of this customers always ask if our company is HACCP certified. My question. If ISO 22000 certified am I automatically certified to HACCP or do we need a separate audit and certificate for HACCP as well. I’m very confused, hope you understand.

Thanks for your help.

Hi,
HACCP is only a part of ISO 22000 certified. If you have only HACCP implemented in your company this is recognized by legal autority which is your legal auditor who certify the company coformity. ISO 22000 is a n international standard which include ISO 9001 requirements and HACCP requirements from Codex Alimentatius principles

[Qasim Abbasi]

My answer is yes . If you are ISO22000 certified you will be automatically HACCP certified .You don't need separate certificate for HACCP

Regards,
M Qasim abbasi

[Charles.C]

My answer is yes . If you are ISO22000 certified you will be automatically HACCP certified .You don't need separate certificate for HACCP

Regards,
M Qasim abbasi

Dear quasimabbasi,

The problem is that the word "automatically" is sort of meaningless.
If you are certified to X, you are certified to X. If not, you are not.
QED

Rgds / Charles.C

[Qasim Abbasi]

Dear Charles.C,

actually in simple word
ISO 22000 = HACCP + Management system

if any customer required HACCP certificate and you are ISO 22000 certified company simply you can provide ISO22000 certificate because you can not get ISO 22000 certificate with out implementing HACCP .

Regards,
M Qasim Abbasi

[Charles.C]

Dear Quasim Abbasi,

Frankly, I think Simon’s earlier response was the most useful reply and should suffice in a real situation. Clearly a successful audit for ISO22000 should imply the implementation of a satisfactory (Codex?) HACCP system.

We are probably at the moment only arguing over semantics.
I believe claiming certification to a standard demands possession of a certificate naming that standard. Clearly you disagree. No problem.

Within the literature, it is easy to find all kinds of usages (misusages?) of the various terminologies involved, eg -

(a) HACCP is a system - ISO 22000 is a standard. ISO 22000 can be used to measure the success of a company's implementation of HACCP, as well as pre-requsites to HACCP and quality systems. There are other standards that can also be used - ISO 22000 is not the only one.

(b) [Compare to (a)] By 1997, the seven HACCP principles listed below became the [HACCP] standard.
http://en.wikipedia...._control_points

© There is no internationally recognized auditing standard for HACCP and while all seven HACCP principles are included in the ISO 22000 standard, HACCP can be implemented as a separate risk management system, or as part of a certification to ISO 9000.

(d)….. HACCP certification will generally be against the requirements of the Codex Alimentarius Basic Food Hygiene Tests, however this is not an internationally recognized standard for auditing , as in the same way as ISO standards. Therefore depending on country and geographical area, many certification and regulatory bodies will certificate against their own HACCP standard, which generally is based around the Codex HACCP principles.
http://www.standards...s/listing/haccp

I anticipate that anyone who does request an approved HACCP Certificate after an audit for ISO22000 will not see any reference to an ISO HACCP standard on the certificate. But perhaps i am wrong ??

Rgds / Charles.C