22 replies to this topic

[JPO]

We open a whole awful lot of 50 pound bags. Generally, this is done with a sani-safe white handled Dexter Russell knife. We're FSSC-22000 certified, so there's a knife inventory program, a knife sanitation program, knife SOP's, knife sharpening schedules, knife inspection program, etc.

I'd like to get away from knives if possible.

We don't have any history of people cutting themselves with knives while handling the knives or while opening bags, but there HAS to be a better way to open bags than this.

This is your standard Kraft paper exterior multi-layer commodity bag (sugar, salt, flour, etc.) we're talking about.

The operation isn't big enough to justify a "bag breaker" or other automated piece of equipment.

Any suggestions, or am I stuck with knives as my bag opening option?

[Will5]

We package mainly in 50 lb bulk bags in our operation. I have had occasions where a customer requests a bag with an easy-open tape on one end, so that the bags could be opened without tools. Would it be an option for you to request something similar from your suppliers?

[GMO]

Normally I prefer not to because I find the easy open systems lead to foreign body issues more than using a knife and if you have an easy open string or tape, even if you ask people to use a knife, they don't because it's easier not to.

What is their motivation for requesting it?

Edited by GMO, 14 February 2011 - 08:56 PM.

[jaredkkrischel]

JPO,
What is your reasoning behind wanting to get away from the use of knives? I think using knives is the easiest and quickest way to open bags, as long as the knive is sharp. I agree with GMO because a pull strip or tape at one end of a bag is just anothrer possible foreign body contaminant. With knives, you make one cut along the side of the bag and dump, so the possibility of foreign bodies getting into products will be lower IMO.


jaredkkrischel

[JPO]

JPO,
What is your reasoning behind wanting to get away from the use of knives? I think using knives is the easiest and quickest way to open bags, as long as the knive is sharp. I agree with GMO because a pull strip or tape at one end of a bag is just anothrer possible foreign body contaminant. With knives, you make one cut along the side of the bag and dump, so the possibility of foreign bodies getting into products will be lower IMO.


jaredkkrischel

Knives are the industry standard, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing some new great idea. We have yet to have anyone cut themselves (knocks furiously on wood) while opening bags, but having operators slice open hundreds of bags a day makes me nervous that someone is going to get cut.

Then I get to put my Blood and body fluid pathogen program into practice!!

[jaredkkrischel]

You are quite lucky to have nobody ever cut themselves... We've had quite a few employees cut themselves with their knives at work. No, I haven't heard of any other new great ideas in terms of cutting bags.

[JPO]

You are quite lucky to have nobody ever cut themselves... We've had quite a few employees cut themselves with their knives at work. No, I haven't heard of any other new great ideas in terms of cutting bags.

Well, "never" is not entirely accurate. People have nicked their hand or fingers and needed a bandage (and a new knife for the rest of the day) and we use Kevlar gloves on the non-knife hand, but in my previous jobs, I've seen people get seriously injured by knives through improper technique (mostly cutting towards yourself) and through carelessness or casual handling (walking around with the knife out of the carrier, point not aimed at the ground).

That's awful stuff.

I don't want to try to calm a person who's just stabbed themselves up to the hilt in the leg with a 4" long, 1" wide razor sharp blade while I lean all my weight on the wound and try to stop blood from pouring out onto the floor.

Don't want to bag any more fingers either.

Yeek.

[GMO]

I've never had anyone cut themselves with a safety knife.

[AssuredResults]

We open a whole awful lot of 50 pound bags. Generally, this is done with a sani-safe white handled Dexter Russell knife. We're FSSC-22000 certified, so there's a knife inventory program, a knife sanitation program, knife SOP's, knife sharpening schedules, knife inspection program, etc.

I'd like to get away from knives if possible.

We don't have any history of people cutting themselves with knives while handling the knives or while opening bags, but there HAS to be a better way to open bags than this.

This is your standard Kraft paper exterior multi-layer commodity bag (sugar, salt, flour, etc.) we're talking about.

The operation isn't big enough to justify a "bag breaker" or other automated piece of equipment.

Any suggestions, or am I stuck with knives as my bag opening option?

My name is Thomas and I have helped many plants implement safe cutting best practices. I work for a packaging materials converting company so we have many plants and many different types of cutting activities. I can share some insights and potential solutions with you.

Edited by Simon, 15 February 2011 - 03:48 PM.
Telephone number removed

[Abdul Qudoos]

I agree knives should not be used,

Instead of knife, scissors may be the best option or

More over you may ask supplier to provide flexible opening packing,

For sugar, salt, flour, etc. we recieve bags of 10,25 & 50 kg with thread stich option, thread can be removed easily by pulling from other side (a technique),

[QLD]

have you ever tried using a hand held air knife ?

They are driven by compressed air and give pretty clean cuts, I'll try and find a link

[Ayayay]

We have used the sam technique, and I am totally agree with you. It is a good decision

I agree knives should not be used,

Instead of knife, scissors may be the best option or

More over you may ask supplier to provide flexible opening packing,

For sugar, salt, flour, etc. we recieve bags of 10,25 & 50 kg with thread stich option, thread can be removed easily by pulling from other side (a technique),

[GMO]

Personally I don't think scissors can be adequately cleaned though? Now I'm no H&S expert but I would also argue scissors can be more dangerous than a properly guarded safety knife? I've used these guys before and they're normally pretty good at sending you some samples to try. Downside of safety knives is they do blunt reasonably quickly but then so does any kind of knife but with a normal knife then there's just the temptation to buy the ones with snap off blades (wrong IMO for food safety and H&S).

http://www.safetyknife.net/

[jaredkkrischel]

I agree that scissors would be hard to clean, but along with that is another problem with scissors. I don't think they would make a clean enough cut on the bag and you might get paper in your products..

[Snookie]

The walking off part we solved fairly easily by having them sign paperwork that any knives not turned in would be deducted from their paycheck....amazing how many stayed in the plant after that.  The dulling part is another issue.  Perhaps a better grade of blade or it might be how they are sharpened. 

[LFidler71]

I know this topic is a few years old, but I am also looking for an alternative to knives.  I am the safety coordinator in a company that opens many sacks of ingredients, 24 hours a day.  I am looking for an alternative to knives.  I don't want bags that have strings you pull to open them because I don't want extra items that could make it into the product.  Did you ever find an alternative to open your sacks?  Thanks!!

[JPO]

I know this topic is a few years old, but I am also looking for an alternative to knives.  I am the safety coordinator in a company that opens many sacks of ingredients, 24 hours a day.  I am looking for an alternative to knives.  I don't want bags that have strings you pull to open them because I don't want extra items that could make it into the product.  Did you ever find an alternative to open your sacks?  Thanks!!

 

Nope.  No alternatives.  Got people trained to follow a set routine for bag opening that factored in ergonomic concerns (how to lift, self leveling lift table to position bags at height of sifter, how to position bag on support) and showed them the most efficient away from you cutting stroke and installed a shelf for knife holding on the sides of the dust hood.  You set the bag on the support bars, grab the knife, make a cut forward away from you and as you return your hand from the cut, you set the knife on the shelf. 

 

It's a circle, basically.  All knives are serialized (number stamped in the butt of the knife) and issued per employee.  You don't get to go home until you return the knife.  Part of the blade control program.  Tried a few "safety knives" but nobody liked them.  Costly, dull quickly, challenging to use compared to a standard knife and I wasn't all that keen on the very thin metal of the blade.

 

Put a Kevlar glove on the off hand and away they go.  Also bought an industry grade knife sharpener and some smooth hones (not material removing honing tools) and that made a difference in the sharpness of the tools being used. 

 

http://www.truhone.c...ore/pc/home.asp

[ebell]

JPO-

 

What kind of knife are you using to open the bags? We have had terrible luck using the safety utility knives while we cut open hundreds of bags each day and cut straps off of boxes. The hardest problem I face is that the knives cannot withstand the sanitizer we soak them in at break times. 

 

Thanks!

[JPO]

JPO-

 

What kind of knife are you using to open the bags? We have had terrible luck using the safety utility knives while we cut open hundreds of bags each day and cut straps off of boxes. The hardest problem I face is that the knives cannot withstand the sanitizer we soak them in at break times. 

 

Thanks!

 

JPO-

 

What kind of knife are you using to open the bags? We have had terrible luck using the safety utility knives while we cut open hundreds of bags each day and cut straps off of boxes. The hardest problem I face is that the knives cannot withstand the sanitizer we soak them in at break times. 

 

Thanks!

 

Ended up sticking with a Dexter Russel heavy boning knife.  6" blade.  Works well for our purposes, NSF certified, sanitizeable, easily marked with a number with a press stamp on the butt of the handle, and easily sharpened.

 

Tried a few of the "safety knives" with the blade hidden in these odd birds beak or "fish" shaped plastic handles and they were a massive pain in the ass to use in production. 

 

Straps were cut off with utility knives prior to loading on pallets for production by the warehouse crew.  Production people only used the boning knives to open the container and contact the food product inside.

 

Yes, we had an inspection program and log for the utility knives too.

[shasha8705]

So I've been interested in this for awhile. How about this product? It's called the "Big Fish Safety Knife" You would still have to replace the blades on occasion  but It looks like it would be similar to a Self-retracting knife. What I liked is that it has less parts that could fall out than the retracting type such as the spring. It seems even safer than the retracting type or scissors as well.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=VHsZ7BJ3UQA

[ebell]

We just tried them and in theory, they are great. But in reality, they are not very helpful. Even removing pallet wrap didn't work as great as I expected. Maybe there is an art to using them?

[Guitardr85]

Let's keep this thread alive!   I would like to hear some of the different storage and retention techniques that people use for their knives?  Do you use set containers on each line?  Locked storage boxes?  

 

What have been some of the best (in terms of security and cleanliness) means for storing knives that people have discovered?

[john v]

https://www.katom.com/094-KK401.html im a little late but this looks like it could work