6 replies to this topic

[Steffie]

Dear all,

We are working for years with a supplier for dry food products who doesn't have a HACCP certificate but are using a HACCP system. (The HACCP documentation, productspecifications, quality declaration and our supplier self audit form are send to us frequently)

As this supplier has not been audited by a third party and therefore there is no proof that their HACCP system works our HACCP auditor mentioned that we need to audit this supplier ourselves. Because this supplier is quite far away and we never have had any issues on their products we prefer to use some other kind of system.

Does anyone use a supplier approvement system based on supplier requirements or supplier reliability (yearly supplier assessments) to prove that we do not have to audit the supplier ourselves?

I am not sure if I explained this issue correctly but hope that someone can help me out.

Thanks !!

Steffie

[StuartMarriott]

Hi Steffie

Third-party auditing (as with all auditing) will just be a snapshot of events at a given moment in time - so even a third-party audit will not prove your supplier's HACCP system works necessarily.

The only 'proof' will be their CCP records, monitoring procedures/results and validation/verification activities internally.

Within your own HACCP System, have you risk assessed the supplier in question?

I would suggest: (presume this supplier is a key supplier, supplying a bespoke product - the main component of your own products):

• Request their latest HACCP documentation and desktop-audit these. Ensure you have a copy of the training records associated with their HACCP Team Leader. Do this with your own HACCP Team and maybe cross reference with any 'standards' you are assessed against. - You should get a feel for whether your supplier's team understand HACCP. (it may be a good idea to set up a video conference to discuss any questions you may have.
• Set up a traceability exercise with your supplier – pick a batch of their product and provide them with the details and a list of associated documents you would like to see. Maybe include the following: CCP records, training records for operators carrying out checks, examples of the last internal audit / hygiene audit before the product was made. I would expect to see scanned versions – to validate how these are completed. Essentially you are attempting a long-distance audit (without being there).
• Ensure your raw material sampling / testing program validates all of their CCPs – you are not checking as frequently at they are, but if you are matching their critical limits you are validating – to some extent – what they do.

If you are satisfied with their response to the above, there is no reason why your own supplier risk assessment does not conclude that – subject to maintaining the standards of ‘issue-free’ product they seem to have supplied for a while – you are assessing them to a level commensurate with that risk.

I would ensure that there is an ‘escalation plan’ in place – such that you do not rule out a physical visit by yourselves in the event of a product issue, or deviation in acceptable supply.

Hope this helps


Stuart

[Charles.C]

Dear Steffie,

As this supplier has not been audited by a third party and therefore there is no proof that their HACCP system works our HACCP auditor mentioned that we need to audit this supplier ourselves

IMEX, auditor's usually require objective evidence (however brief) which for the topic discussed would normally come from you/a colleague doing an audit yourselves or via some other neutral body doing it for you with respect to some (auditor) acceptable standard.

A lot of private inspection companies make a nice business by issuing their own HACCP certificates for cases like yr own. Assuming yr auditor was agreeable, i would hv thought this would be a simpler solution assuming that yr supplier's haccp system is indeed "credible". The only obvious drawback is an (annual) cost to somebody.

The previous post offers some very useful suggestions for "distance" auditing however the associated workload will clearly not be negligible, the crunch is simply whether yr auditor is willing to be onboard with this option or not. I once set up an analogous multi-participant quality system using a preliminary questionnaire to act as an initial screen to protect both ends from wasting each other's time. Sadly, the responses proved that the worst case scenario frequently did exist. Hopefully you will get a better result.

Rgds / Charles.C

[mind over matter]

Dear all,

We are working for years with a supplier for dry food products who doesn't have a HACCP certificate but are using a HACCP system. (The HACCP documentation, productspecifications, quality declaration and our supplier self audit form are send to us frequently)

As this supplier has not been audited by a third party and therefore there is no proof that their HACCP system works our HACCP auditor mentioned that we need to audit this supplier ourselves. Because this supplier is quite far away and we never have had any issues on their products we prefer to use some other kind of system.

Does anyone use a supplier approvement system based on supplier requirements or supplier reliability (yearly supplier assessments) to prove that we do not have to audit the supplier ourselves?

I am not sure if I explained this issue correctly but hope that someone can help me out.

Thanks !!

Steffie

Totally agree with favorite Charles C and StuartMarriott, just wanted to add and see what others thought.

Since your supplier is quite far away and you never have had any issues on their products, perhaps you could spend less time on facility inspection than, let say, a suppplier with rpoblematic products. But keep it in perspective: You need to ensure that if you do any purchasing and if that purchasing has an effect on the safety of your products, then you need to have in your system way/s of making sure that you manage the safety of the purchased product (raw materials). In short, evaluation of supplier is important. It can be as simple as the following short list of criteria.

For example,
- Ability to meet requirements/specs
- On time delivery
- Satisfactory level of delivered products
- Price
- Needed documentation (e.g. Delivery Recipt) -- that will serve as your traceability and "OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE"

Edited by mind over matter, 12 October 2011 - 04:56 AM.

[Steffie]

Thank you all for your comments. I am working on a supplier questionnaire with a list of necessary documentation (registrations) to be supplied as proof. I also want to add some kind of score card for the minimum required documentation to see if the documentation (or registration) is complete and calculate the score against the possible maximum score. If the percentage will be below a certain value a possibility could be to go there and audit myself as their feedback is questionable. Could this be a possibility? Does something like this already exist??

Thanks !

Steffie

[Charles.C]

Dear Steffie,

One thought -

Since yr supplier(s) is seemingly processing the ingredients themselves, IMEX it is normally mandatory for him/her to possess at a minimum some official manufacturing license from the local authorities.? (ie proof [and sometimes with documented details IMEX] of a satisfactory inspection). Not have ?? I would hv thought that this plus yr possessing mutually agreed / validated specifications might have squeaked past an auditor. Especially if the items involved / finished product are transparently low risk. ??


(Assuming above not feasible) - You are now basically creating a "restricted" version of a factory / FSMS Audit document. There are many simple checklists (eg Gap Lists) posted on this forum within the specific standard forums (eg BRC etc). After some (unrelated content) pruning, can rapidly offer a "pre-validated" starting list perhaps. Another approach might be to borrow an example of one of the internal audit schemes posted here which often equally cover the standard but in a more selective fashion.

A possibility to perhaps increase the likelihood of getting yr auditor's acceptability of checklist is to risk prioritise the evaluation / scoring procedure (if this is within yr competence). A common official style is to to evaluate defects in the style of critical / major etc with an appropriate decision matrix (eg 1 critical defect > automatic visit, etc, etc. Obviously a little more thought required but a more impressive result. Of course, if you can pre-determine that yr auditor is happy with a simple unweighted scoring scheme, then that's the way to go.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jasmina Masrani]

Dear Steffie,

Since the product is low risk food according to me Supplier Declaration of Commitment for supplying safe food with company stamp and GM sign is enough to prove product safety and the internal audit report which they are sending you at frequent interval is added benefit on it.

Hope you get some help from my reply.

Jasmina

Dear all,

We are working for years with a supplier for dry food products who doesn't have a HACCP certificate but are using a HACCP system. (The HACCP documentation, productspecifications, quality declaration and our supplier self audit form are send to us frequently)

As this supplier has not been audited by a third party and therefore there is no proof that their HACCP system works our HACCP auditor mentioned that we need to audit this supplier ourselves. Because this supplier is quite far away and we never have had any issues on their products we prefer to use some other kind of system.

Does anyone use a supplier approvement system based on supplier requirements or supplier reliability (yearly supplier assessments) to prove that we do not have to audit the supplier ourselves?

I am not sure if I explained this issue correctly but hope that someone can help me out.

Thanks !!

Steffie