9 replies to this topic

[Jennyb723]

Our Central Production Facility (CPF) has opened a new food production plant that is similar to a commissary. One of our processes, we produce our RTE meats, fruits and veggies at 36F. The employees are familiar with the cold temps since this is a similar operation to the CPF. In the past to help with the cold they used cloth gloves with the disposable gloves on top and they want to continue to use the cloth gloves. I think they are unsanitary and the risk of contamination is high, however, the employees’ fingers are numb from the cold air and cold product.



I’m working on a risk assessment to prove the risk of contaminating product with dirty gloves out weighs any benefit from processing in cold temperatures. This seems like a no brainer but I have been asked to find evidence to prove that 50F and under would also be a safe processing temperature.



Does anyone have any experience processing food in refrigerated temps? Would there be a mid-shift clean at 50F similar to that at room temperature processes? The product is stored cold prior to processing and we could easily verify it is below 41F.



Warm regards,

Jennifer

[Charles.C]

Dear Jenny,

You don't mention the precise handling operation but I'm surprised 36degF(ca.2degC) is legally (worker) possible, never mind operationally ?. I recall some earlier UK threads on (H&E) acceptable working temperature ranges on this forum. Sounds more like working in a chilled storage room.

As per basic HACCP, product safety is invariably a time/temperature function as related to microbiological concerns (excluding the glove issue) so the answer to yr 50degF (ca.10degC)question may depend on the specific process parameters (eg using ice for meat?). HACCP Fishery Guide (USFDA) for seafood contains some data for maximum handling times vs product temperature for maintaining safety with respect to selected micro.species (I appreciate 41degF is a magic number for USA, not so in other locations).

I have seen 5degC in routine use for non-frozen meat processing and it was "difficult" even with gloved systems similar to yr reference. Great for promotional safety data though.

I have also seen 10degC satisfactorily used for packing frozen product. This was a significantly more user friendly temperature level but still required inner cotton gloves for extended periods, plus working condition "caveats". Maybe you should do a trial test for worker response ?

Vegetables and meat may be rather different of course, especially if the former has no bactericidal step in the total chain.

Rgds / Charles.C

[George @ Safefood 360°]

Again, difficult to know without more detail. However, bacteria take time to grow and that's a fact. The EU sets out temperature requirements for preparation rooms and I would be surprised to find that the very low temperatures you mention would significantly add to the safety of the product over a well managed operation at a higher and workable temperature.

You are taking the correct approach. Ideally you need to generate data which proves your point. A validation exercise which maps the exisiting process (time/temp) and relates this to product quality/safety (micro testing / shelf life etc) and an identical one at higher temperatures should provide you with ample data. You will of course need to get buy in from senior management. If the data shows that there is no significant benefit to working in Arctic conditions then management might benefit from lower energy costs and higher worker productivity.

I would like to hear about the outcome of your efforts on this.


George

[Jennyb723]

Dear Jenny,

You don't mention the precise handling operation but I'm surprised 36degF(ca.2degC) is legally (worker) possible, never mind operationally ?. I recall some earlier UK threads on (H&E) acceptable working temperature ranges on this forum. Sounds more like working in a chilled storage room.

As per basic HACCP, product safety is invariably a time/temperature function as related to microbiological concerns (excluding the glove issue) so the answer to yr 50degF (ca.10degC)question may depend on the specific process parameters (eg using ice for meat?). HACCP Fishery Guide (USFDA) for seafood contains some data for maximum handling times vs product temperature for maintaining safety with respect to selected micro.species (I appreciate 41degF is a magic number for USA, not so in other locations).

I have seen 5degC in routine use for non-frozen meat processing and it was "difficult" even with gloved systems similar to yr reference. Great for promotional safety data though.

I have also seen 10degC satisfactorily used for packing frozen product. This was a significantly more user friendly temperature level but still required inner cotton gloves for extended periods, plus working condition "caveats". Maybe you should do a trial test for worker response ?

Vegetables and meat may be rather different of course, especially if the former has no bactericidal step in the total chain.

Rgds / Charles.C

Our cold production includes slicing deli meats, mixing tuna and chicken salad, various leaf salads and fresh cut veggies and fruit all products are packed in containers that are tray sealed (not MAP as of yet). We have a separate chilled room (again 36F) where we wash and sanitize our fruits and vegetables. Everything that is processed in the cold production area has already been prepped and is ready for final processing.

OSHA requires the employees take several breaks throughout the day but it's still hard to work in for even short periods of time. Thanks for the input.

Regards,
Jennifer

[Jennyb723]

Again, difficult to know without more detail. However, bacteria take time to grow and that's a fact. The EU sets out temperature requirements for preparation rooms and I would be surprised to find that the very low temperatures you mention would significantly add to the safety of the product over a well managed operation at a higher and workable temperature.

You are taking the correct approach. Ideally you need to generate data which proves your point. A validation exercise which maps the exisiting process (time/temp) and relates this to product quality/safety (micro testing / shelf life etc) and an identical one at higher temperatures should provide you with ample data. You will of course need to get buy in from senior management. If the data shows that there is no significant benefit to working in Arctic conditions then management might benefit from lower energy costs and higher worker productivity.

I would like to hear about the outcome of your efforts on this.


George

Thank you George. Great suggestion. I'll keep you posted on our Arctic thaw.

Jennifer

[Jason Young]

Jennifer,

Here are some documents that may help you think about the science of microbial growth in cool processing environments.


And a large part of your program would be sanitation and supporting the sanitation program with microbial sampling of environment and food contact surfaces.


Jason

Attached Files

•  Growth Factors For Selected Bacteria degrees F.doc   41.5KB   79 downloads
•  2 PROCESS CONTROL FOR REFRIGERATED STORAGE.doc   35KB   77 downloads
•  6 Growth Temperatures for Microorganisms Tompkin.doc   90KB   75 downloads

[Jennyb723]

Jennifer,

Here are some documents that may help you think about the science of microbial growth in cool processing environments.


And a large part of your program would be sanitation and supporting the sanitation program with microbial sampling of environment and food contact surfaces.


Jason

Great documents! Thank you!

[Urban Explorer]

I wish we would work in 36 degrees, we work at 50. The FDA insisted on at least that since we handle fish and they are concerned about histamine.

We do not do a mid-shift clean during an 8 hour shift and are not required to do so.

We also produce ready to eat foods with cured meats and snack trays, so I think our environments are similar.

Some of the workers wear cloth gloves underneath the disposable ones. To get around possible contamination, we have totes at each station with sanitizer in them for employees to dip their hands in once the latex gloves are on. That might be a possible solution. I know how much these people complain about 50 degree temps, never mind 36.

The US has very different rules for working conditions than the UK. They are much harsher. Working in 0 degree temperatures is not uncommon.

[Jennyb723]

I wish we would work in 36 degrees, we work at 50. The FDA insisted on at least that since we handle fish and they are concerned about histamine.

We do not do a mid-shift clean during an 8 hour shift and are not required to do so.

We also produce ready to eat foods with cured meats and snack trays, so I think our environments are similar.

Some of the workers wear cloth gloves underneath the disposable ones. To get around possible contamination, we have totes at each station with sanitizer in them for employees to dip their hands in once the latex gloves are on. That might be a possible solution. I know how much these people complain about 50 degree temps, never mind 36.

The US has very different rules for working conditions than the UK. They are much harsher. Working in 0 degree temperatures is not uncommon.

A hand dip is a great idea. I wasn't sure if there was a mid-shift clean at 50F so that also clears that up for me. I wimp out at 36 degrees very quickly. It takes a very dedicated person to stand in there all day.

Thanks,
Jennifer

[Charles.C]

I wish we would work in 36 degrees, we work at 50. The FDA insisted on at least that since we handle fish and they are concerned about histamine.
................. >

The US has very different rules for working conditions than the UK. They are much harsher. Working in 0 degree temperatures is not uncommon.

Dear Destinee,

Rather scary desire although it does present the FDA as a slightly more worker-friendly body than often perceived.

i suspect the acceptable (minimum) temperature comparison is much wider than UK but no supporting data.

One interesting aspect IMO is whether there is any published, validated operational risk assessments to justify these near-zero degC (eg < 50degF) dictates (crazinesses?) as far as food safety is concerned. I do not think i have ever seen one for any type of "meat" / poultry / seafood other than the old chestnut that, excluding psychrophilic pathogens, 5degC is a good target maximum for blocking growth of other major pathogenic species in seafood. Validity well documented but suppose 5 > 10 degC ?

The US fascination with 41degF (ca 5degC) is equally demonstrated in refrigerator specs (at least in principle anyway) since the UK (and Europe?) is quite content to set a max of 8degC, albeit recommending a lower value (prob.5degC). At least such spec. variations do not directly impact the physical health of the user. But power usage surely yes ? Once again, i don't recall seeing any validated studies of FS-related results.

Rgds / Charles.C