12 replies to this topic

[hygienic]

Hi All;

 

 

we are daily making coleslaw in larg quanities , do you know what is the best way to wash the cabbage  which is the essential item included   , Is there a  cabbage washing procedure ? as every boday awars that cabbage's leaves are hard and break rapidly once you start  peelling  , not like lettuce which is having very soft leaves and can remove and peel gently . Why I am underscorring to wash and coorect me if I am wrong , that the cabbage might have a high amount of E.coli in their leaves , so in order to be sure that the cabbage is free from pathogenic bacteria I am looking to set a sound procedure for washing and sanitizing it , maybe chefs in hotles or the one who is working in fast foods restuarant such as KFC  can assist in this matter .

 

Regards

Hygienic

 

Edited by hygienic, 27 September 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Gourav]

Hi,

How about shredding it and then dipping in 100ppm chlorine solution for 2-3 minutes and let them air dry on a perforated surface from beneath.

Thanks

Gourav

[Snookie]

Having done a lot of cabbage, mostly in the tons.  We prep it, by coring and cleaning off outer leaves.  Then we shred it wash it either in chlorine or a peracetic wash (at a level safe for food contact), shake of some of the water and then spin dry it, before it is packaged. 

[Charles.C]

Having done a lot of cabbage, mostly in the tons.  We prep it, by coring and cleaning off outer leaves.  Then we shred it wash it either in chlorine or a peracetic wash (at a level safe for food contact), shake of some of the water and then spin dry it, before it is packaged. 

 

Dear snookie,

 

Thks for input.

 

Can you reveal yr (US) idea of "safe" for the 2 options? 10ppm ? 100? 1000? My guess is that the dipping/washing  time may also be relevant ? Instantaneous ?

I believe the chlorine ppm limit  would be zero in the Netherlands.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

A development technician I recruited a few years ago had actually worked on this as a project for a major salad processor and found that better results were achieved by removing the outer leaves and washing before chopping and shredding.

[Snookie]

Dear snookie,

 

Thks for input.

 

Can you reveal yr (US) idea of "safe" for the 2 options? 10ppm ? 100? 1000? My guess is that the dipping/washing  time may also be relevant ? Instantaneous ?

I believe the chlorine ppm limit  would be zero in the Netherlands.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

In the US we use 100 ppm chlorine and Peracetic Acid between the acceptable food contact range (it has been awhile since I used it so am rusty on the limits).  Our flume systems were designed to have contact time right around two minutes.  The biggest impact to shelve life and quality of the product (beyond the actual product) was the spin drying.  Too much time or speed really kills it, but you can't have it too wet either.  I personally prefer the peracetic acid, while it is more expensive to buy think its maintenance and accuracy equalizes as chlorine requires buffering and much more chemical.  Also think even at the right strength you can sometimes get a bit of chlorine taste or smell which puts customers off and they think it isn't safe. 

[Snookie]

A development technician I recruited a few years ago had actually worked on this as a project for a major salad processor and found that better results were achieved by removing the outer leaves and washing before chopping and shredding.

That is not surprising, but would think that would be easier to do in small quantities.  Would be interested in the process for large volumes. 

[Tony-C]

That is not surprising, but would think that would be easier to do in small quantities.  Would be interested in the process for large volumes. 

 

 

The project was dealing with very large volumes.

[hygienic]

A development technician I recruited a few years ago had actually worked on this as a project for a major salad processor and found that better results were achieved by removing the outer leaves and washing before chopping and shredding.

Dear Tony;

 

Is there a specific standard for chlorin concentration in cabbage that reduce the bacteria to the acceptable level or kill it?

 

Hygienic

[hygienic]

Dear snookie,

 

Thks for input.

 

Can you reveal yr (US) idea of "safe" for the 2 options? 10ppm ? 100? 1000? My guess is that the dipping/washing  time may also be relevant ? Instantaneous ?

I believe the chlorine ppm limit  would be zero in the Netherlands.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Dear Charles;

 

Is that due to high contamination in Holand ? as there was a previous cases indicated of leaves contaminated such lettuce or cabbage.

 

Hygienic

[Charles.C]

Dear hygienic,

 

Perhaps I should hv been more numerically cautious . From memory, comments in other threads on this forum imply that  the Netherlands do not accept food products which have been processed in contact with water where microbiological safety is achieved through maintaining a residual chlorine level.

 

The Netherlands drinking water supply apparently relies on chemicals such as ozone. The logic / methodology is detailed here (also see attachment ch5) –

 ch1 - safe drinking water without chlorine in the Netherlands, 2009.pdf   1.06MB   11 downloads

 

A typical general reservation regarding use of chlorine/ related chemicals is  due to DBPs , Disinfection By-Products. For example this extract from attachment ch4 –

 

 ch2 - Chlorination DBPs.png   116.66KB   0 downloads

 ch4 - Risk assessment of disinfection byproducts in poultry chilled in chlorinated water, Najjar,2009.pdf   226.9KB   10 downloads

 

I also noticed this (2003, current validity unknown) comment from attachment ch3 on a similar activity elsewhere –

 

Water used to chill carcasses could contain chlorine (20 ppm for spray washing and between 20 and 50 ppm in the chilling tank) "in order to facilitate the reduction of total microbiological loads" (NCC, 1992). The amount of chlorine added to the intake water should be sufficient to achieve 1 to 5 ppm available chlorine at the chiller overflow. This practice is not authorized in the European food industries for which only potable drinking water must be used in the contact of foods (Council Directive 71/118/EC)

 

 

 ch3 - EC draft opinion - the evaluation of antimicrobial treatments for poultry carcasses, 2003.pdf   724.26KB   6 downloads

 

The actual implementations in the EC’s constituent countries suggest a wide variety of (sometimes multiple ) opinions –

 ch5 - DRINKING WATER DISINFECTION USING CHLORINE, theory and practice, Casey 2009 -.pdf   98.13KB   9 downloads

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

Dear Tony;

 

Is there a specific standard for chlorin concentration in cabbage that reduce the bacteria to the acceptable level or kill it?

 

Hygienic

 

Springer: 'The optimum washing and sanitizing conditions using sodium hypochlorite for lettuce were determined as immersion at more than 50 ppm for 1min at 20°oC and washing twice for 30 sec after dipping'.

 

I personally would choose to use something else to disinfect.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Andy_Yellows]

A development technician I recruited a few years ago had actually worked on this as a project for a major salad processor and found that better results were achieved by removing the outer leaves and washing before chopping and shredding.

Hi guys, I came across this thread while searching for a way of washing our ingredients for a coleslaw mix without having to buy a new machine (we already have one for chopped leafy salads but the holes are big enough that shredded products would fall through). So judging by the above statement am I right in thinking that if we took our peeled our carrots and cabbage (the only ingredients), cut them into halves/quarters and threw them in the washer pre-shredding we would be looking at a pretty decent product? I ask this as we have been getting some below satisfactory micro results for our coleslaw mix and I don't believe our process gives enough regard to the cleanliness of the raw materials.

 

Regards,

 

Andy