8 replies to this topic

[Miss Tammy]

Can someone please explain in detail exactly what is required for the verical audit by BRC? 
We have two facilities therefore different auditors and we can't seem to understand exactly what they want.  I really wish BRC could get it together with their auditor training to make the audit more uniform.  It is very frustrating to correct all non conformities from our sister plants BRC, then have a new one issued to us for something that they passed with flying colors!  The verical audit is only one example of this.  Our Food Safety and Quality programs are as close to identical as we can get them, so how can one auditor pass somehting and another one not?  Anyone else have this issue?

[brighteyes]

Can someone please explain in detail exactly what is required for the verical audit by BRC? 
We have two facilities therefore different auditors and we can't seem to understand exactly what they want.  I really wish BRC could get it together with their auditor training to make the audit more uniform.  It is very frustrating to correct all non conformities from our sister plants BRC, then have a new one issued to us for something that they passed with flying colors!  The verical audit is only one example of this.  Our Food Safety and Quality programs are as close to identical as we can get them, so how can one auditor pass somehting and another one not?  Anyone else have this issue?HI

Hi Tammy

Cross check each HACCP flow chart that represents a family of each product categories with similar hazard and production technologies (i.e. Same as each HACCP plan).

 

Stage 1 - Identify where in those steps records are generated needed for trace from purchasing, intake, raw material handling, preparation, processing, packing and storage and despatch. 

Stage 2 - Identify from each chart CCP monitoring records / Validation records of each CCP /  start up checks / Hygiene and GMP audits, glass audits, CCP audit carried out for that batch or nearest to that batch / Supplier approval SAQ questionnaires, for each or chosen ingredients / Raw material and primary packaging spec's / corrective action log that shows compliance and or non-compliance and root cause investigations relating to batch, product and processing lines or area / complaints of that line or product / downtime, repair or maintenance records for line and batched product / cleaning schedule and records for line and key equipment I.e. Cleaning instruction card of equipment requiring dismantling and swab trends results for environment of pathogens such as listeria if applicable?  / Any specific allergen clean down records, swabs,? / finished product testing for safety, quality? / weight control records / Product pack coding, and correct label check control records

Stage 3 - Training records for CCP operatives / Key operational prerequisite programs such as weight control, label checks / purchasing and supplier approval Manager training files etc.

 

Create a formal check list that is referenced in your traceability procedure so that you can demonstrate what senior auditors / managers have been trained against  / it should have a front cover that details all your traceability format in raw materials / packaging / WIP / finished product / Responsibilities and accountabilities of staff needed to carry out traceability / time of start and finish being less than 4 hours

 

This way you demonstrate most if not all fundamentals quickly and clearly demonstrate that your QMS is integrated and effective throughout.

 

Hope this helps  Sounds complicated but its just a check list that is all you need with incredible benefits.

 

Kind regards

 

Dave Mc Gee

 

.

Edited by Charles.C, 03 March 2014 - 04:43 PM.
sig.deleted

[Miss Tammy]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question.  Just to be clear, I do not need to gather all of these records, but have a list of them and the auditor could randomly sample some if he so chooses? 

[brighteyes]

Hi Tammy

 

Yes you could only provide the basic trace records that you have identified from the HACCP flow / and then if auditor asks for records you know you can provide them 

 

However I prefer having a list for you and the auditor at the same time so that you can show how it all connects at the same time  This is impressive for an auditor and stops them getting confused.  Also your being crafty in a way because the auditor is more likely to reduce number of questions for other clauses  It saves time and effort.  It shows you have good control and competency of staff.  Its a good impression on the auditor (I do BRC audits still).  It provides direct evidence of the BRC standard requirements.  It is only once a year and if you can do this is two hours it shows you off in good light (however remember clause 3.9.2 traceability needs to be done in less than 4 hours but not the vertical audit, only the traceability itself).

 

Its up to you, me I prefer the check list each as it makes the process so much easier to follow

 

Please ask me anytime Tammy and hope this is a little helpful

 

Kind regards

 

Dave Mc Gee

[brighteyes]

Hi Tammy

 

Yes you could only provide the basic trace records that you have identified from the HACCP flow / and then if auditor asks for records you know you can provide them 

 

However I prefer having a list for you and the auditor at the same time so that you can show how it all connects at the same time  This is impressive for an auditor and stops them getting confused.  Also your being crafty in a way because the auditor is more likely to reduce number of questions for other clauses  It saves time and effort.  It shows you have good control and competency of staff.  Its a good impression on the auditor (I do BRC audits still).  It provides direct evidence of the BRC standard requirements.  It is only once a year and if you can do this is two hours it shows you off in good light (however remember clause 3.9.2 traceability needs to be done in less than 4 hours but not the vertical audit, only the traceability itself).

 

Its up to you, me I prefer the check list each as it makes the process so much easier to follow

 

Please ask me anytime Tammy and hope this is a little helpful

 

Kind regards

 

Dave Mc Gee

Tammy

 

I may not have been clear enough  A - You provide all  trace records with check list only / and use check list when there asking for more records

 

B - You provide all trace records and those other records as well with the check list as a complete control of operations exercise (vertical audit).

 

PS  Highlight the location where and who can collect the records, training records, glass registers etc.  This may be multi-departmental so you need to have someone designated or a team with there resonsinblites clearly allocated.

 

Kind regards

Dave 

[Charles.C]

Can someone please explain in detail exactly what is required for the verical audit by BRC? 
We have two facilities therefore different auditors and we can't seem to understand exactly what they want.  I really wish BRC could get it together with their auditor training to make the audit more uniform.  It is very frustrating to correct all non conformities from our sister plants BRC, then have a new one issued to us for something that they passed with flying colors!  The verical audit is only one example of this.  Our Food Safety and Quality programs are as close to identical as we can get them, so how can one auditor pass somehting and another one not?  Anyone else have this issue?

Dear Miss tammy,

 

It might help if you mentioned the specific bones of contention ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Miss Tammy]

Dear Charles,

 

We did not receive a non-conformity concerning the vertical audit.  The auditor at our sister plant asked for all of the documents and more that were listed in the previous reply.  This amounted to 4 stacks of documents 6 inches high!  So during our audit, in the interest of time, I had my staff prepared and assembled them as well.  My auditor never looked at them…..just asked about what type of documentation we were doing relating to an ingredient he chose to do the “Mass Balance” exercise on.  This is really the root of my problem.  Prior to our first BRC (we have had 4, the first a “B” and 3 consecutive “A’s”) I went to our other plant and went through the gap audit to prepare for ours.  I corrected everything in my facility that was found, and still had 20 minors, 19 of which were documentation!  I will be having a new auditor this year, and wanted to educate myself on the requirements in order to have a valid argument should I need it.  I will do what is needed to get my “A”, just keep getting conflicting information as to what that is. 

 

Regards,

Tammy

[Charles.C]

Dear Miss Tammy,

 

My sympathies but I suspect yr experience of methodological variation is not unique. (I deduce that you have had the same auditor for numerous events which IMEX is rather unusual).

For traceability, from experience i can recommend the overwhelming approach -  the auditor is ushered to a segregated computer where the intricacies of software programs  are laboriously explained by some IT whiz-kid and visually demonstrated against a morass of flow charts. The usual result is a rapid skipping to the specific results for some “random” complex-looking product plus a few desultory cross-checks to the  raw data. It’s QA buck-passing of course but also the 9^th Wonder of the World.   The available options may depend on yr specific product/process/personnel of course.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Miss Tammy]

Dear Charles,

 

I am very familiar with the overwhelming approach, and have succesfully used it a number of times:) Our method is slightly different as we print out stacks of documents with bits of information highlighted throughout and present it with a very believable song and dance.  It is my understanding that a BRC auditor can only audit the same facility 3 times.  My concern is with a differnt auditor this may not be as effective as in the past.  I intend to give it my best shot, hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst which would be explaining all of the stacks of documentst!