24 replies to this topic

[trubertq]

Can I ask  as a point of information, are enforcement officers, of any description, allowed to enter a processing plant without adhering to any of the hygiene rules attendant to that processing plant?

 

I'm just asking in case it would ever happen which is unlikely.........

[Quality Ben]

No.

All visitors / contractors etc must adhere to site policies.

:)

[mapry2]

A big NO

[Charles.C]

Out of curiosity. another point of information -

 

would this include a face mask ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Quality Ben]

Out of curiosity. another point of information -

 

would this include a face mask ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

I would think it would - if face masks were standard for all employees and the areas entered. Our hygiene policy (PPE, sanitation etc) applies to all persons who enter that particular area..... except some specific PPE that is dependant on what you will be doing in that area. 

[Charles.C]

except some specific PPE that is dependant on what you will be doing in that area.

 

 

Nice one.

 

O lucky Engineers.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[cazyncymru]

To be honest the only people I would allow into a production area without donning "company issue" PPE are the fire brigade or a paramedic, whilst they are carrying out their duties.

 

Royalty , dignitaries & MP's will be required to wear what the rest of us are wearing!

 

Your local EHO / TSO will be (should be) more than happy to don PPE

 

Caz

[trubertq]

Thanks ever so, that was my instinct but I wanted some back-up lest the issue ever arose. It was one of those conversations that lead to 'what if'.... and everyone turned and looked at me.....

 

 

By the way...retained the A grade with only 5 NC's!! Thanks indeed to information I have gained here over the years.     

Edited by trubertq, 27 May 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[sozcan]

Yes.

[Snookie]

Do they have guns..... are handcuffs out......I am going to let them do whatever they want to

Edited by Snookie, 27 May 2014 - 08:42 PM.

[TAN85]

Love Snookie's post!

 

On a serious note, I would definitely say no (although again I would say dependent of the type of plant)....EXCEPT for emergency situations (ie if a medical condition was so bad that the employee could not be removed from the plant to be tended by paramedics, or something like a hostage situation (!!) ).... in which case, there would be a proviso in the procedure for disposal of exposed/contaminate product and the sanitation of the facility following the incident....  but really, who needs the extra paperwork???

[Jus'me]

No they should have to suffer like the rest of us.  Actually they may even try testing you on this to see if you enforce your policies.  I suggest if they take issue, ask them to walk on water, when they can do that then you will allow them to ignore the rules on PPE. But until then, they are required to follow the rules just like everybody else.

[KevinB]

Absolutely not. If they do not adhere to the rules themselves how can they enforce them.

[Harish R]

Yes. If they want to inspect the premises.

Edited by Hareesh, 29 May 2014 - 04:08 AM.

[Antores]

You SHOULD follow the same food safety protocol for enforcement officers as any visitor (visitor sign in sheet, provide protection equipment, read rules… whatever you do to all visitors).  Most of the times they will be polite enough to agreed and follow your hygiene rules…. Especially because they are there for that, to see if you have rues and follow them..   

BUT with that said, they are ENFORCEMENT officers, so the actual answer to your questions of what they can do and not, you must check your local regulations and see how much authority they have..  All countries states and regulators would be different.

Finally, being ENFORCEMENT officers, there is always a chance of authority abuse…  (As Snookie said, if they have guns…) In my personal case an Inspector from the HEALT DEPARTMENT OF COLORADO, didn’t want to sign the visitor logs or agreed to our rules, with the excuse that he “has to do anything he has to do to inspect the plant”…  In that case, because of local regulations we would have been able to DENY the entry… but that would just put is in a black list with the department of health, so we just documented the situation and let him in.. (ny the way, he followed the rules, just didn't want to sign)

Bottom line, my advice would be ask them to follow the rules, but don’t push it.. They are the enforcers, not you..  If they do something wrong, or something that can contaminate the product, follow your FS protocols and document it.

Edited by Antores, 29 May 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Setanta]

The ONLY thing I don't enforce hearing protection. I have asked USDA inspectors to not come in wearing incorrect pants, shoes or shirts, but hearing protection is their loss.(and it doesn't affect my product)

[SpursGirl]

I would say (almost) always yes!

 

I have requested that CFIA meat inspectors follow the hygiene rules of the plant and have also prevented them from bringing their own PPE and equipment (hard hats, thermometers etc) into the plant. These guys work extensively in the slaughter house environment and I do not wish them to bring equipment from a raw meat plant into my cooked ready to eat meat processing facility.

 

Initially I had plenty of arguements with them on that score but eventually I got them to agree to use of our plant PPE and equipment.

 

The only exception I have ever had on this was when we had a number of immigration offers arrive at a plant on a raid (whilstle blower follow-up) who demanded immediate access. They werre carrying guns and also had trained dogs in tow - not sure how I was going to get hair nets and booties onto a large german shepperd!

 

This prompted me to write an emergency access procedure detailing situatiuons where emergency access without following site hygiene procedure is allowed, conttrol of the access and clean up operations post access. This now covers things like emergency services access (police, fire, medical) - these are really the only exemptions to the site hygiene regulations.

[Setanta]

DOGS??? Oh my stars!

[Snookie]

Sooooo how did you handle the dog part?

[SpursGirl]

The officers were there to detain any illegal workers (not that we employed illegal workers but they had had a tip off from a disgruntled ex employee) and the dogs were there to 'search' for any employees may hide from the officers.

 

We had to let the dogs into the staff areas, warehouse and low care processing areas of the plant - they were on leashes and to be fair very well trained - but we resticted entry to our high care processing unit and did not let the dogs into that part of the plant. The officers searched high care and would have taken the dogs in if they felt there was potential of any hidden worker - luckily it was all ok!

 

Afterward was a massive top to bottom detail clean then swabbing to release the low care area back into use - very time consuming and costly.

[Snookie]

I would have liked to see the dog in booties and hair nets.  Would have made a great picture. 

[Dharmadi Sadeli Putra]

Can I ask  as a point of information, are enforcement officers, of any description, allowed to enter a processing plant without adhering to any of the hygiene rules attendant to that processing plant?

 

I'm just asking in case it would ever happen which is unlikely.........

Depends on what they do in processing area (emergency situation is an exemption)

[AS NUR]

i would say no...

[Rob Marriner]

After 30 years of undertaking inspections I would always expect to follow the requirements of the food business. If I was not asked to do so, would it not suggest the business did not take their own requirements seriously?

[Dharmadi Sadeli Putra]

Defining an emergency (from wikipedia)

An incident, to be an emergency, conforms to one or more of the following, if it:

    - Poses an immediate threat to life, health, property, or environment
    - Has already caused loss of life, health detriments, property damage, or environmental damage
    - has a high probability of escalating to cause immediate danger to life, health, property, or environment

I'm wondering, does it make sense to ask the enforcement officer to follow hygienic rules in such situations?