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SQF 11.3.2.2 Appropriate Temperature for potable water?


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#1 FoodChick

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

SQF 11.3.2.2 Hand Washing - A portable water supply at an appropriate temperature

 

What is an appropriate temperature?  And how long should it take for the running water to reach this temperature?

Do I need to do swabbing of hands before/after, contact soap manufacturer, etc.?

 

I've seen an auditor time the hot water but failed to ask what an acceptable time and temp.... as it wasn't an issue and he moved to the next thing.  Now I'm dealing with a very slow water heater and concerned this could be an issue. 



#2 Setanta

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:56 PM

If this is for a hand washing sink, the should be be above 100F.

 

There is this thread also, which has links to other threads here  http://www.ifsqn.com...er-temperature/


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#3 Snookie

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:12 PM

Believe over 110 degrees F is where scalding can occur.  So needs to be between 100-110.  Usually 105 is ideal. 


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#4 Charles.C

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:34 PM

Believe over 110 degrees F is where scalding can occur.  So needs to be between 100-110.  Usually 105 is ideal. 

 

Dear Snookie,

 

You must have very sensitive hands. :thumbup:

 

There is a classic chemical analysis where it is required to heat the conical flask/solution before titrating so that it is "just too hot to touch". From memory, this was claimed to provide approx. 60degC.

x1.8, +32 > ca.140degF.

 

On the other hand, E.coli water baths usually run around 40degC which IMEX is "just" uncomfortably warm if  one  leaves one's hand in. > 104degF. So 105degF was maybe an inspired guess. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 fgjuadi

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:10 PM

It should be over 100 F -

 

"FDA Food Code Chapter 5 [Plumbing, Water and Waste] Section 5-202.12, Handwashing Sink, Installation, paragraph (A), recommends that, "A handwashing sink shall be equipped to provide water at a temperature of at least 38oC (100oF) through a mixing valve or combination faucet...""

 

 

For your employees safety, it should not be over 120F.

 

http://www.pseg.com/...ty/scalding.jsp  -

 

Looks like if your employees are washing their hands for 30 seconds, water at 130 F can cause 2nd and 3rd degree burns.  At that's only if you only employ "adults" - we have elderly folks on our staff.  

 

Google-first-page-educated guess - 100-115F

 

I can't find anything on time...I guess short enough for your employees to wait for it to get hot? 


Edited by magenta_majors, 11 August 2014 - 11:20 PM.

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#6 Snookie

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:24 PM

Dear Snookie,

 

You must have very sensitive hands. :thumbup:

 

There is a classic chemical analysis where it is required to heat the conical flask/solution before titrating so that it is "just too hot to touch". From memory, this was claimed to provide approx. 60degC.

x1.8, +32 > ca.140degF.

 

On the other hand, E.coli water baths usually run around 40degC which IMEX is "just" uncomfortably warm if  one  leaves one's hand in. > 104degF. So 105degF was maybe an inspired guess. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

Actually when washing dishes by hand I like really hot water.  Many health districts want our water temperatures between 98 degrees f and 110 degrees f.  However studies have shown at 110 you can start losing lipid content and have more cracking as well as sensitive skin will scald.  Which is why we set temperature for 105.  Have seen studies where they indicate water temperature does not have a huge impact on efficacy, so I personally just want them washing their hands with soap. 


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#7 Mike Green

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:55 PM

Have seen studies where they indicate water temperature does not have a huge impact on efficacy,. 

 

 

Attached is a paper from Barry Michaels- which looks at a number of studies and comes to the conclusion that (pretty much) technique is the biggest factor

 

 

(We have monitored this in a large number of companies over the last 10yrs (as part of hygiene training) using a range of temperatures and types of soap and I would have to concur with this(interestingly -method of drying was probably second!!)

 

I have also attached a paper (US) from 2013 looking at the potential environmental impacts/energy wasted from choosing  to wash hands in water that is too hot-(which IMO makes interesting reading)

 

Mike

Attached Files


I may sound like a complete idiot...but actually there are a couple of bits missing

#8 cazyncymru

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:37 PM

We have our water set at 38 to 40 degrees , and monitor daily.

 

Tesco's seem happy with this, and our hand swabs reflect adequate cleaning.

 

There doesn't appear to be any (UK) legislation on the matter

 

Caz x



#9 Setanta

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:24 PM

This is hardly scientific, but I have been told by trainers for Food Safety courses, that the length of time handwashing should take is roughly 30 seconds or the time it takes to sing Happy Birthday or recite the alphabet (to yourself, one would presume)


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#10 Charles.C

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:48 PM

We have our water set at 38 to 40 degrees , and monitor daily.

 

Tesco's seem happy with this, and our hand swabs reflect adequate cleaning.

 

There doesn't appear to be any (UK) legislation on the matter

 

Caz x

 

Hi Caz,

 

I guess it also relates to the ambient temperature / washing time but as previously mentioned, I found dipping one's hand into 40degC water bath for 30sec distinctly unpleasant, skin-wise. (was trying to spin the propeller at the time :smile: )

 

IIRC, Tesco are notably hard taskmasters ?

 

Rgds / Charles


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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