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Organoleptic Testing as a CCP what would be the Critical Limit?


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#1 Keya

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:10 PM

Hello,

 

My company is looking to switch from SQF Level 2 to SQF level 3. I am working on creating a HACCP based quality plan. We are a small flavor/ syrup company and I have come to a conclusion that I will consider organoleptic testing as a critical quality point. Although I would like to know what would the critical limit be? Can I just mention it has to taste according to its previous control? With regards to the monitoring procedures, I am planning to mention that after the product is made the sample is brought to the QC lab for testing.. the QC tastes the sample along with the control to see if it matches, if it matches the product is passed and packaged if not attempts are made to re adjust it. That would be the corrective action... Although I am unsure as to what would be the verification procedure, Since QC is responsible for tasting it, who will verify the records or monitoring procedures? I am the only person in the QC lab who performs the testing there is no other QC person. if I am not around the plant manager is responsible for undertaking QC responsibilities. So does he become the person who verifies? but does that mean he needs to taste the product every time as well or he can just have a look at my records which mention the product tastes good and is passed and he signs there? Please let me know your inputs.

 

Thank you.



#2 Sandima

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:48 PM

Organoleptic testing can be a critical quality point (CQP I guess) but it is not a CCP so you can define your limit as whatever you want to meet your quality parameters and verification is not necessary.

 

However, just after I read your post I received an e-mail invitation to a webinar on a taste sensing machine.  Probably too expensive but you could check it out.  It is Friday November 7th and for food applications it is at 12:00 pm Eastern

 


Register here:  https://vr2.vertical...tesensingsystem      

Edited by Sandima, 28 October 2014 - 05:48 PM.


#3 Charles.C

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:11 PM

Dear Keya Shah,

 

I'm not a SQF-L3 user (notorious for Va/Ve headaches) but I would have thought most auditors would, minimally, be interested to know how you validated a critical quality point regardless of the subjective nature of, for example, taste? Verification in many cases would, IMO, be a (documented) documentation/ end-product situation but for SQF one never knows.

 

No doubt some L3 users here will know.

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#4 CMHeywood

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 08:53 PM

Sandima has a good point:  CCP = food safety (SQF Level 2) critical control point that reduces or removes contamination.  QCP = quality control point (SQF Level 3) determined by customer requirements and internal quality standards but don't involve contamination controls.

 

SQF terms:   Monitoring = operator or lab person doing the testing or checking.

                     Verifying = "supervisor" confirming that the testing is being done consistently.

                     Validating = management doing trend analysis to assure that the test is controlling the right thing (valid test).



#5 Snookie

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 09:27 PM

CQP= Ewww-Yuck!  Sorry couldn't resist. 

 

Flavor is an interesting challenge.  Had many a product that met all the technical standards, brix, pressure, etc.  But the flavor just wasn't there.  Generally when it came to flavor the companies I worked for usually had a rating system of bad, poor, good, excellent or some semblance of that.  But we did not have it set as a Critical Quality Point.


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#6 RG3

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 10:26 PM

This topic is interesting and I think Nestlé has a good take on it. They would even offer a sensory course. Here's the just of it. You would train a panel on what is sensory and how to do sensory. The neat thing is that Nestlé would send you back to your company with a neat little train the trainer package with bitter, sour, salty, metallic, heat, etc. packets.

 

There's different takes on it, but there was a prebuilt matrix. Take a look at my Mickey Mouse example below of the bell peppers. This is an example of what is not acceptable, what is just acceptable, what is on target. As mentioned above this is determined by customer requirements and/or internal quality standards based off specs. There are certain limits of what is acceptable and what is considered Just In (Just acceptable). Something that is "IN" meets all criteria from taste to color to texture (worth something like 4points). Something that is "Just In" may have not meet one of these criteria's but is still considered acceptable (worth something like 2points or 1). Something that is "Out" does not meet spec (0 points). You would need to be able to hit some sort of percentage for the overall product to be acceptable to ship out. I'm trying to be as broad as possible but still be able to steer you in the right direction because I don't want Nestlé to come after me.

Attached File  In JustIN Out.png   160.43KB   9 downloads



#7 Charles.C

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 07:45 AM

Dear All,

 

We are a small flavor/ syrup company and I have come to a conclusion that I will consider organoleptic testing as a critical quality point.

 

 

How so ?

 

Not a user but as I understand it, SQF requires the critical quality  control point (and  pseudo-CQLs, etc,etc) to be determined by analogy to the haccp (safety-based) technique / terminologies.

 

If so, this logically demands selection of a specific  "Q-hazardous" characteristic? Choosing "OLQ" would surely be equivalent to, say, nominating "pathogenic bacteria" in the safety world. Not a recommended procedure.

 

Additionally, IMO, the haccp analogy implies use of some kind of relative  severity ranking system between different types of, for example, organoleptic characteristics, eg flavour as compared to odour. Otherwise one presumably obtains a vast array of  QCCPs which would  appear to disagree  with the equivalent haccp objective (avoiding the potential red herring of OQPRPs :smile: ).

 

None of  the previous posts seem to address this aspect, eg can one (human) really, negatively,  prioritize between rancid and mouldy cheese ? :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#8 Vladimir Surcinski

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:35 AM

Well this is interesting  :rolleyes:

 

If we talk about small production/company, maybe investment in new machines is not the most accepted solution. I think that defining critical limit for organoleptick could be tricky especially when you have to decide something based on taste differences. 

Maybe we could use one simple solution for your challenge there, based on changing of oil in deep fried pan. If this is something new for you :shades:  - Example is that you take 6 glass jars (or more), and you pour the oil on every few days (depends on the frequency of frying and amounts) in 5 jars. That 5 jars would be the color range from first - fresh oil, till last - oil that is ready to be changed. Sixth jar is used for  taking of oil and comparison with oil in other jars. 

This method is simple and also can be transferred to your product.  You will need to define types of tastes and describe it in same range from good to bad (someone already mention that for flower company's). Then you will do your control (through simple comparison) according to that, and record it. 

For verification, you can train some of the staff or as you mentioned plan manager. There is no need that he do verification every time, you just have to decide time interval for verification (for example - you can leave some samples, and verification can be done once per week).

 

I hope that this will help you  ;)

 

Pozdrav from Serbia :rock:



#9 AS NUR

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 10:07 AM

IMO, Taste is not Safety parameter, its more Quality parameter. And may i know what validate that you use to decide organoleptic is CCP?

 

Rgds

 

AS Nur



#10 Mike Green

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 10:28 AM

This topic is interesting and I think Nestlé has a good take on it. They would even offer a sensory course. Here's the just of it. You would train a panel on what is sensory and how to do sensory. The neat thing is that Nestlé would send you back to your company with a neat little train the trainer package with bitter, sour, salty, metallic, heat, etc. packets.

 

There's different takes on it, but there was a prebuilt matrix. Take a look at my Mickey Mouse example below of the bell peppers. This is an example of what is not acceptable, what is just acceptable, what is on target. As mentioned above this is determined by customer requirements and/or internal quality standards based off specs. There are certain limits of what is acceptable and what is considered Just In (Just acceptable). Something that is "IN" meets all criteria from taste to color to texture (worth something like 4points). Something that is "Just In" may have not meet one of these criteria's but is still considered acceptable (worth something like 2points or 1). Something that is "Out" does not meet spec (0 points). You would need to be able to hit some sort of percentage for the overall product to be acceptable to ship out. I'm trying to be as broad as possible but still be able to steer you in the right direction because I don't want Nestlé to come after me.

attachicon.gifIn JustIN Out.png

Interesting....!

 

I used to work with a large cheese company that did a similar thing-the visuals/texture were fairly straightforward-but the 'taste factor' was a nightmare

 

They spent weeks 'training & calibrating' the tongues of their  potential tasters using pre prepared samples and chemical drops and only when they reached a certain level of success in blind tastings could they 'go live' (so to speak)

 

-the problem was that if they had drunk alcohol the night before, or eaten a curry or used mouthwash, eaten mints or drunk tea or coffee that morning  or had a cold, basically 'all bets were off' on the accuracy of their results!

 

......Not a QCCP that I would fancy validating!

 

Mike


I may sound like a complete idiot...but actually there are a couple of bits missing

#11 fgjuadi

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 04:02 PM

This topic is interesting and I think Nestlé has a good take on it. They would even offer a sensory course. Here's the just of it. You would train a panel on what is sensory and how to do sensory. The neat thing is that Nestlé would send you back to your company with a neat little train the trainer package with bitter, sour, salty, metallic, heat, etc. packets.

 

There's different takes on it, but there was a prebuilt matrix. Take a look at my Mickey Mouse example below of the bell peppers. This is an example of what is not acceptable, what is just acceptable, what is on target. As mentioned above this is determined by customer requirements and/or internal quality standards based off specs. There are certain limits of what is acceptable and what is considered Just In (Just acceptable). Something that is "IN" meets all criteria from taste to color to texture (worth something like 4points). Something that is "Just In" may have not meet one of these criteria's but is still considered acceptable (worth something like 2points or 1). Something that is "Out" does not meet spec (0 points). You would need to be able to hit some sort of percentage for the overall product to be acceptable to ship out. I'm trying to be as broad as possible but still be able to steer you in the right direction because I don't want Nestlé to come after me.

attachicon.gifIn JustIN Out.png

 

Ah, Nestle sells those to other companies? 

They have smell vials for odors too.... I hated preparing those.  The vials themselves are specific hazards (like one that taints it with oil from a machine ) and they're liquid and sometimes they spill in your lab and your mechanic won't come in for a week even though you need him to wipe the solenoid clean because the autoclave is clogged with pig blood agar. 

 

  Sensory also works best with a trained panel of 5 people.  If your average score is out of range, then you hold the product.  Usually a QCP.


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#12 RG3

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 05:34 PM

Ah, Nestle sells those to other companies? 

They have smell vials for odors too.... I hated preparing those.  The vials themselves are specific hazards (like one that taints it with oil from a machine ) and they're liquid and sometimes they spill in your lab and your mechanic won't come in for a week even though you need him to wipe the solenoid clean because the autoclave is clogged with pig blood agar. 

 

  Sensory also works best with a trained panel of 5 people.  If your average score is out of range, then you hold the product.  Usually a QCP.

 

EXACTLY...I had fun with the blind smell test...muuahahahahha...All you do is place something inside a white coffee cup with lid and cover up the item with a baking sheet or napkin so they don't cheat...what you put inside is up to you :hypocrite:

 

I thought that a QCP was what the Keya was referring to...hmmm must've misread it



#13 RG3

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 05:36 PM

Interesting....!

 

I used to work with a large cheese company that did a similar thing-the visuals/texture were fairly straightforward-but the 'taste factor' was a nightmare

 

They spent weeks 'training & calibrating' the tongues of their  potential tasters using pre prepared samples and chemical drops and only when they reached a certain level of success in blind tastings could they 'go live' (so to speak)

 

-the problem was that if they had drunk alcohol the night before, or eaten a curry or used mouthwash, eaten mints or drunk tea or coffee that morning  or had a cold, basically 'all bets were off' on the accuracy of their results!

 

......Not a QCCP that I would fancy validating!

 

Mike

 

You got it Mike,

 

   There were a lot of rules like no eating hours before, no coffee, no smoking, I lost half my panel. That's why they said you need a backup panel.






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