9 replies to this topic

[acef2104]

Hi all,

 

I'm been doing a deep dive into the customer complaints database and have been analysis on whether issues were closed off appropriately. I have stumbled on this incident below:

 

"A customer has received a bag of flour with no label on it and has placed it on hold for pick up".

Corrective actions taken: bag was received from customer, it was relabeled and sent back to the customer.

Preventative actions taken: Operator ensures that the bags were labelled and transferred into the warehouse, warehouse staff check all bags are labelled and refresher training on manufacturing support who prints out labels.

 

What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of the corrective and preventative actions? I feel that preventative actions are more corrective actions to me and the corrective action defined is more a correction than anything.

 

I know processes in every site is different but if you have any suggestions to what would be an appropriate corrective action, that would be appreciated. 

 

Thanks,

 

Ace

[mgourley]

Might want to institute a plan (PA), that some checklist or other scheme is in place to ensure that outgoing shipments are properly checked and labeled.

 

Marshall

[redfox]

Hello acef2104,

 

 There is some confusion on correction/corrective action. Some standard correction and corrective action is the same. But we can differentiate both by their application.

 

Correction is immediate action for incident that is not recurring. Corrective action is for incident that is recurring.which needs a root cause analysis to know and eliminate the cause of the problem. While preventive action is for incident that may happen which is based on history and risk analysis.

 

Preventive and corrective action applied must be verified to know if it is effective. if found ineffective, new PA and CA must be applied.

 

Hope this could help.

 

regards,

redfox

[hombis]

Hi,
I agree with red fox in general. Corrective action is to prevent an incident to repeat again though. Is the outcome and action of the scanning of the processes that tell us that something is wrong and may soon cause the repetition of the non conformity (flour bag without lebel).So if there is a gap in the QC of final product, to fix it is a CA, if something is wrong with the training of the personnel to fix this is a CA, if something is wrong with the maintenance of the printing machine then we have again a CA.
Thank you.
Christos

[acef2104]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

That was my initial understanding and needed reassurance on my thought process.

 

Many thanks,

 

Ace

[AllisonCook]

Picking up and applying the label to the flour was a correction- a quick fix for the problem. An effective corrective action is a process. First one must locate and document the root cause of the problem. Did an employee forget to apply the label? Did they run out of labels? Was a machine applying the labels? Did it malfunction? Was there a defect with the label roll? After the cause is known you have two more steps to take. 1. Determine if any other bags of flour were not properly labeled. If so, make a correction by labeling the bags of flour. 2. Fix the root cause of the problem. If it was employee error, retrain. If it was machine error, fix. If it was label roll error, contact the vendor inform them of the problem and ask them to correct it going forward.

 

Now for the preventive (not preventative) actions. Preventive actions are steps taken to prevent problems before they occur. Some appropriate preventive actions that would have addressed your label issue are: label supplier specification and/or agreements on quality, employee training on labeling procedures, a check for proper labelling either by production or shipping department, label inventory management procedures. If you have these measures in place and you still managed to ship a bag of flour without a label, then the preventive actions need to be reassessed and possibly re-written using the information you gained when you performed the root cause analysis of the problem during the corrective action process.

The more you do these activities, the more control you will have over your process and the less you will have to do these activities in the future.

[Charles.C]

Hi Alison,

 

Thks for input. I agree with most of yr details.

 

I like preventive since its shorter but i often use preventative probably because it was, I think, more common in the earlier haccp texts. For example the 2003 Codex tree had the "at" but it's been extracted in the 2009 version. Interestingly, in both cases, the text only uses the shorter form.

Grammatically it seems to be a simply a matter of choice, eg -

http://www.quickandd...us-preventative

 

@Ace -

 

In the context of FS- HACCP, specific definitions for CA/PA are often included although sources may vary. CA is typically a Reactive activity, PA is (or, if not, should be) a Proactive (hence the name) one. For example PRPs are Preventive control measures.

 

Quoting from ASQ -
 

Quality professionals frequently express confusion as to the difference between corrective and preventive action. A corrective action deals with a nonconformity that has occurred, and a preventive action addresses the potential for a nonconformity to occur. Many ISO 9000 registrar auditors tell their clients to use separate procedures and forms to document each type of action. Nothing in the standard says this must be done, but p. 13 includes the word “prevent” in the clauses on corrective and preventive action.

On closer reading, however, section 8.5.2 says corrective action eliminates the cause of nonconformities to prevent recurrence, and section 8.5.3 says preventive action determines and eliminates the causes of potential noncon- formities … to prevent occurrence. See, there is a difference!

 

http://asq.org/quali...ive-action.html

 

Some alternative FS interpretations -

codex

Corrective action - Any action to be taken when the results of monitoring at the CCP indicate a loss of control.

sqf

Correction  - Action to eliminate a detected non-conformity. Shall have the same meaning as “corrected.”

 

Corrective Action - Action to eliminate the cause of a detected non-conformity or other undesirable situation.

Corrective action shall include:

a)    Determine / document any immediate action required / taken

i.      Determine the cause of the problem

ii.     Evaluate action needed on the identified cause

iii.    Determine if the problem exists elsewhere in the system and implement actions needed

b) Document the results of the action taken

i.      Review/verify and document effectiveness of action taken with objective

evidence.

 

 

BRC

Preventive action -  Action to eliminate the fundamental, underlying cause (root cause) of a detected non-conformity and prevent recurrence.

Correction - Action to eliminate the cause of a detected non-conformity.

Iso22000

corrective action - action to eliminate the cause of a detected nonconformity or other undesirable situation

 

Definitions of Prevent(at)ive Actions seem rarer, probably because it is considered to be relatively self-explanatory.

 

Both terms are fused in CAPA, eg

https://en.wikipedia...eventive_action

 

If yr query was non specific, I suppose, theoretically, you can make/choose yr own definitions.

[PUNEETH BR]

I'm put it in a simple way...

 

Correction - Fixing the problem immediately

 

Corrective Action - To fix a problem you need to have analysis report of causes before/during fixing the problem (Report for validation for why I am attacking only his cause) Tools used - why-why analysis, Fish bone diagram, flow charts etc. to find the exact cause in the process

 

Preventive Action - You are taking preliminary steps to avoiding the initiation of problem

 

Regards

Puneeth 

[Charles.C]

I'm put it in a simple way...

 

Correction - Fixing the problem immediately

 

Corrective Action - To fix a problem you need to have analysis report of causes before/during fixing the problem (Report for validation for why I am attacking only his cause) Tools used - why-why analysis, Fish bone diagram, flow charts etc. to find the exact cause in the process

 

Preventive Action - You are taking preliminary steps to avoiding the initiation of problem

 

Regards

Puneeth 

 

Hi Puneeth BR,

 

Thanks for your simplification.

[CMHeywood]

This is how the company I work for defines each:

 

Corrective Action - fix the one occurrence that was detected and determine the cause.

 

Preventative Action - implement a new procedure or change existing procedures so it doesn't happen again.  Remove the cause of the problem.