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SQF Ed 8 requirements for Internal Audit


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#1 Tavish101

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:42 AM

I had an outside internal audit that didn't cover all over our prerequiste programs - less then half. Will this meet the SQF Ed 8 requirements? Do I need to have this redone? 



#2 jcieslowski

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 05:06 PM

Two things:

 

 
"2.5.5.1 Internal audit plans and methods shall include food quality plans, process controls, quality tests, and other
activities implemented to meet finished product specifications and customer requirements."
 
If your prerequisite programs outline your food safety plans, process controls, quality tests or 'other activities' then yes, they need to be internally audited.  This is to say that YES, all your programs should be audited.
 
"2.5.5.2 Staff conducting the quality internal audits shall be trained and assessed in internal audit procedures and
have knowledge and experience in the quality process and process control methods as they relate to the scope of
 
I'm concerned that a 3rd parry internal audit (kind of an oxymoron to me) doesn't posses the knowledge and experience in your methods to qualify as your internal auditor.  That being said, I've never tried such a program.  Maybe someone else knows more than me about the benefits and drawbacks of using a 3rd party for internal audits and what auditors tend to think about the process.


#3 kmalvetti2

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:25 PM

Hi Susan,

 

What exactly do you mean by "outside internal audit" - was it a consultant who started this or..?

 

All critical programs, procedures, forms related & mentioned in your Food Safety Plans, HACCP Plans, & Quality Plans (if your getting the quality code) must have been included to comply with the SQF requirement.I could give you some more specifics if you answer the top question.

 

Kindly,

Kate



#4 Tavish101

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:48 PM

 

Two things:

 

 
"2.5.5.1 Internal audit plans and methods shall include food quality plans, process controls, quality tests, and other
activities implemented to meet finished product specifications and customer requirements."
 
If your prerequisite programs outline your food safety plans, process controls, quality tests or 'other activities' then yes, they need to be internally audited.  This is to say that YES, all your programs should be audited.
 
"2.5.5.2 Staff conducting the quality internal audits shall be trained and assessed in internal audit procedures and
have knowledge and experience in the quality process and process control methods as they relate to the scope of
 
I'm concerned that a 3rd parry internal audit (kind of an oxymoron to me) doesn't posses the knowledge and experience in your methods to qualify as your internal auditor.  That being said, I've never tried such a program.  Maybe someone else knows more than me about the benefits and drawbacks of using a 3rd party for internal audits and what auditors tend to think about the process.

 

That is what I am realizing.... I plan on getting certified and creating a team so someone else can audit my area.



#5 Tavish101

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:53 PM

Hi Susan,

 

What exactly do you mean by "outside internal audit" - was it a consultant who started this or..?

 

All critical programs, procedures, forms related & mentioned in your Food Safety Plans, HACCP Plans, & Quality Plans (if your getting the quality code) must have been included to comply with the SQF requirement.I could give you some more specifics if you answer the top question.

 

Kindly,

Katethat 

Yes... it was a consultant and we are becoming SQF 2 Food Manufacturing. I am being told that it doesn't have to be completed before site audit....even if this meets the SQF requirement - I am finally realizing ( my ignorance ) that we are exposed in the area's didn't have the  internal audit. 



#6 kmalvetti2

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 08:36 PM

Hi Susan,

 

Okay well if it's a consultant and they went over the results with you - then yes it would "count" as part of the internal audit (just make sure it's documented). For the parts the consultant didn't review, all you have to do is go line by line down the SQF code requirements (they have excel spreadsheets already created for this) and 1. ensure you comply and 2. record the documents you looked at, people you interviewed, conditions you saw, etc. in the "Findings" column. Basically, you just need to explain how your company complies with each line. Then you will have a fully documented, complete, internal audit of your food safety management system vs. the SQF code.



#7 CHRISTBEARER7

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 01:22 PM

Hi Susan,

 

I am a little confused how you could have an "outside internal audit". I can see a gap audit from an outside consultant but the internal audit is supposed to be done internally by staff employed by the company.

 

For example at my company the managers meet monthly and then each month a different group of 2 or 3 managers does the self audit interior and exterior of the facility which includes going through the glass and brittle plastic, GMPs and we document all of our findings and corrective actions.

 

We have a schedule we follow to make sure on an annual basis we cover prerequisite programs, maintenance, allergens, food defense, food safety, mock recalls, HACCP, water, air and ice testing, etc.

 

At least one person from the company must be trained and competent in in internal audit procedures ref. 2.5.5.2. Once completed that person can train others in the company on internal auditing.

 

There is a caveat where practical staff conducting internal audits shall be independent of the function being audited. If you are a small company this can be difficult. 

 

The most important part is all records of internal audits and inspections and any corrections and corrective action taken as a result of internal audits shall be maintained. If it hasn't been documented it hasn't been done.

 

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thanks!



#8 Tavish101

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 01:43 PM

Hi Susan,

 

I am a little confused how you could have an "outside internal audit". I can see a gap audit from an outside consultant but the internal audit is supposed to be done internally by staff employed by the company.

 

For example at my company the managers meet monthly and then each month a different group of 2 or 3 managers does the self audit interior and exterior of the facility which includes going through the glass and brittle plastic, GMPs and we document all of our findings and corrective actions.

 

We have a schedule we follow to make sure on an annual basis we cover prerequisite programs, maintenance, allergens, food defense, food safety, mock recalls, HACCP, water, air and ice testing, etc.

 

At least one person from the company must be trained and competent in in internal audit procedures ref. 2.5.5.2. Once completed that person can train others in the company on internal auditing.

 

There is a caveat where practical staff conducting internal audits shall be independent of the function being audited. If you are a small company this can be difficult. 

 

The most important part is all records of internal audits and inspections and any corrections and corrective action taken as a result of internal audits shall be maintained. If it hasn't been documented it hasn't been done.

 

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thanks!

Our "Internal" Audit was done by the consultant. Not by us. Does this mean it "has" to be done by the company "us"? Shouldn't our consultant known this? Has anyone used a consultant for the internal audit & passed this section or anyone received a nonconforming for this?

 

Thank you for your help!



#9 Tavish101

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 01:55 PM

Hi Susan,

 

Okay well if it's a consultant and they went over the results with you - then yes it would "count" as part of the internal audit (just make sure it's documented). For the parts the consultant didn't review, all you have to do is go line by line down the SQF code requirements (they have excel spreadsheets already created for this) and 1. ensure you comply and 2. record the documents you looked at, people you interviewed, conditions you saw, etc. in the "Findings" column. Basically, you just need to explain how your company complies with each line. Then you will have a fully documented, complete, internal audit of your food safety management system vs. the SQF code.

Can consultants do an "Internal Audit" or is the code interpreted by staff as meaning the onsite staff?



#10 jcieslowski

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 03:09 PM

Sorry, it seems like most don't know the answer to your question.  Neither do I but I'd certainly at least be ready to answer questions related to 2.5.5.2.  You should be able to provide some sort of document that your 3rd party auditor was trained in auditing procedures and you should be able to answer about how they were able to understand and know enough about your program to audit it.



#11 kmalvetti2

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 04:08 PM

If a consultant helped you do the internal audit, most auditors don't have a problem with that - this person was independent of the functions being audited, and they are performing this on behalf of the current company they are working for/contracted with i.e. your company.

 

But on another note - someone on site needs to be a trained internal auditor (this is directly stated in the code). There's many classes you can take to satisfy this and get a certificate of completion. Since the consultant I'm assuming won't be on site during the actual audit - complete the missed parts as described above in my first comment and don't go out of your way to mention who did that part of the audit. I highly doubt the auditor would dig into this further as long as you go in confidant and have all necessary documentation in order (MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CONSULTANT'S INTERNAL AUDITOR CERTIFICATE ON FILE - this is essential).

 

Now if there is someone on site who is an internal auditor with a certificate, just make sure they "oversee" the process of completing the remainder of the audit & ideally have this person train all others who may take part in these audits on your specific Internal Auditing Program (& MAKE SURE ITS DOCUMENTED). 

 

If there's no one in your facility with this certificate - go get someone certified in internal audits ASAP (before the audit) so you'll be fully prepared for hopefully this year, but at a minimum next year. See paragraph 2 explaining more on this and how to act. I know a few consultation services that run IA training pretty frequently so if you need help finding one just let me know and I'd be glad to help.  :bye:



#12 CSL QC/QA

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 04:53 PM

Hello,

 

To further understand this for SQF is it a requirement for someone on site who is an internal auditor to have a certificate. I am the SQF practitioner onsite and been to implementing SQF systems training w/ certificate but does this count for auditing. Our SQF Desk audit is Thursday. Will I get dinged a minor for not having a certificate for internal auditing?

 

Thanks 



#13 jcieslowski

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 09:34 PM

No.  you should get an auditing certificate from your local training body.  It's pretty basic and 'self explanatory' for those of us who have been in the business for a while but you should still get a training certificate, at least for the 'lead auditor'.  In my last position I was certified and provided an internal training course that allowed others on my team to conduct internal audits (but only I, as certified lead auditor could decide the audit standard and issue audit assignments).  This passed SQF nicely. 



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#14 SausageGuy

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 01:12 PM

Hello,

 

To further understand this for SQF is it a requirement for someone on site who is an internal auditor to have a certificate. I am the SQF practitioner onsite and been to implementing SQF systems training w/ certificate but does this count for auditing. Our SQF Desk audit is Thursday. Will I get dinged a minor for not having a certificate for internal auditing?

 

Thanks 

During our desk audit last year, our auditor gave us a minor because we did not have anyone certified to do an internal audit even though we performed an internal audit. I received training on internal auditing prior to our facility audit and it was all good.

 

If no one is trained on Internal Auditing, you most definitely will get a minor, so make sure you get trained! I did an online class from 22000-tools.com (they have classes for multiple different schemes) and it was relatively inexpensive, quick, and not very difficult.



#15 rtanit

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 07:07 PM

In the Module 2 Guidance document it says the following:

 

"For internal audits to be effective, staff conducting internal audits must be trained in internal auditing techniques,
information gathering and objective observation. This training need not be “formal” training provided by an
external source. Internal auditor training covers internal audit procedures, including the planning and scheduling
of internal audits, preparing internal audit reports and initiating and following up on audit findings. Internal audits
should combine several information gathering techniques, including interview of personnel, review of records and
observation of current conditions."





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