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Family dog on site---audit

plant on farm dog not in plant

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Scampi

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 07:36 PM

Ok, I would like everyone's feedback.

 

The owners have just told me that they were told if the auditor sees the family dog outside (large family farm, with processing plant onsite) that it would be an auto fail!  I cannot find a code to support this of course.

 

Please weigh in on so I can sort this out.  CFIA, however, has never had an issue so how can SQF trump federal employees?


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Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:41 PM

how can SQF trump federal employees?

 

 

Because it's a voluntary standard that is set higher than your legally required ones. That said the situation largely depends on whether there is a specific portion of the code banning it, and you have a risk assessment on file to address any potential hazards.


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Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:39 AM

Unfortunately you cannot guarantee what kind of an auditor will show up. I certainly didn't expect the hot mess I got. I would say better safe then sorry, keep the dog out of sight.



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Posted 02 June 2018 - 03:53 PM

Dear Scampi

 

In my experience, years ago I was in a chesnut factory. there was a family dog chained autside the factory. There was NOT problem to get the IFS certification

 

The factory was on the middle of the countryside. On the other hand, measures had been established to prevent the entry of strangers  inside tha plant so the dog could not enter either.

 

Regards

Esther



Charles.C

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:26 PM

Ok, I would like everyone's feedback.

 

The owners have just told me that they were told if the auditor sees the family dog outside (large family farm, with processing plant onsite) that it would be an auto fail!  I cannot find a code to support this of course.

 

Please weigh in on so I can sort this out.  CFIA, however, has never had an issue so how can SQF trump federal employees?

 

Hi Scampi,

 

Something tells me it's a Large dog !


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Scampi

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:02 PM

He's a small border collie mix, yes h'es  loud, that's his job, but he is not allowed in the warehouse or the processing plant. I was trying to understand if there was something IN THE CODE. I am exhausted by the stories I am hearing regarding the auditors themselves these days and what they are trying to enforce that is not within their means.

 

If there is nothing in the code or the guidance, then he should stay out, he is actually a vital piece of the security of the location (we are in the country, 1 hour away from major centre)

 

I am going to email my new CB today, I shall post the response I get here.


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Charles.C

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:19 PM

He's a small border collie mix, yes h'es  loud, that's his job, but he is not allowed in the warehouse or the processing plant. I was trying to understand if there was something IN THE CODE. I am exhausted by the stories I am hearing regarding the auditors themselves these days and what they are trying to enforce that is not within their means.

 

If there is nothing in the code or the guidance, then he should stay out, he is actually a vital piece of the security of the location (we are in the country, 1 hour away from major centre)

 

I am going to email my new CB today, I shall post the response I get here.

 

Hi Scampi,

 

Assuming the facility to be audited possesses a clearly defined boundary perimeter/fence I would think any interpretation is related to whether the dog is inside or outside such a fence.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Scampi

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:23 PM

No fence, 2 buildings. The dog has the run of the 100 acres, but again, is not allowed (nor does he enter) areas where food is received, stored, processed warehoused or shipped.


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Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:34 PM

No fence, 2 buildings. The dog has the run of the 100 acres, but again, is not allowed (nor does he enter) areas where food is received, stored, processed warehoused or shipped.

 

I assume this is either category, 1, 3 or 5.

 

Seems to me such potentially open-plan scenarios must have some exceptional tolerances as well.

 

A question of risk assessment ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:58 PM

Hey Scampi,

 

Our offices and lunch rooms are in a house and our factory is a completely different building. The owner has kept a cat in the house for years and now brings his dog to work most days. I had my CB in recently to do a Gap Assesment, There is no specific code addressing the animals but under Mod 4 -4.3.10.1, 4.3.10.2, 4.3.10.3 Her note was "The Lunchroom is in a house/office that also has a cat. This is not ideal. Pets are a source of pathogens/microorganisms and thus pose a risk of cross-contamination to employees, of product, and packaging".

 

We have since moved the lunchroom into the factory so employees no longer need to come into the house-office. The cat was moved to the owners home and he has agreed not to bring in another cat. The dog has never gone in or near the factory. For good measure, I enforced a policy to limit where the dog is allowed and to ensure the dog is walked off the property and uses our neighbor's lawn for the bathroom  :sleazy: JK we are fortunate enough to have a large empty field next door to use for this purpose. I had the owner sign off on the policy, which he was ok with since he's a bit of a stickler when it comes to keeping the property clean. I also added a GMP rule "No animals allowed in any area of the factory" and reiterated to keep doors closed at all times. 

 

I sent this to my CB and I am awaiting her reply...

 

I will add since the cat moved, rodent activity has increased in our outside traps...I wonder if I assign the cat an official title of Pest control, could he stick around?



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Scampi

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:08 PM

Thank you iTreatpets

 

LOL, I would rather the cat than the mice.....the cat would need to have all of it's shots (as should the dog)

 

The dog has a title, he is head of security!!!!

 

My objection is the sweeping statement that was made previously that it would be an automatic fail if the dog was outside!!!

 

Our facility has 2 buildings; processing and warehousing. Doors are self closing, dog doesn't enter, but does monitor the property. Area is kept free of excrement etc.....most of the time he's hanging out in the office with us greeting customers.

 

We are not all located in an urban centre and have different situations than most are used to I think

 

As i mentioned, I will post my feedback from the CB too.


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Scampi

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 01:44 PM

I received a response from my new CB this morning;

 

Here is the technical managers response J

 

As long as the dog isn’t inside the processing area, then there is no issue.

 

If he/she lives outside, then they can help chase off the rats!

 

Finally someone is using some common sense to look at the entire situation.


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itreatpets

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:40 PM

I received a response from my new CB this morning;

 

Here is the technical managers response J

 

As long as the dog isn’t inside the processing area, then there is no issue.

 

If he/she lives outside, then they can help chase off the rats!

 

Finally someone is using some common sense to look at the entire situation.

 

That's great! Maybe I will let the cat have his job back!



Scampi

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:54 PM

I will also add for anyone managing a farm food safety program (global gap, canadagap) this is directly from the CanadaGap website;

 

"An operation allows their family dog to run through the production site. Is this acceptable? If not, is it an autofail?

Section 2.1 (Production Site and Surroundings Assessment) requires the operation to assess the site(s) for “unusually high levels of animal and bird activity (e.g., migratory paths, nesting or feeding areas, presence of animal feces, large areas of animal tracks or burrowing, etc.)”. Having one domestic pet in the production site would NOT be considered an unusually high level of animal activity. Having several dogs would. It is not an autofail to have a dog in the production site. In the audit checklist in Section C, Premises, the operation will be assessed for potential hazards from adjacent areas and animal/bird activity. If an auditor were to notice the dog defecating in the field they may take off a point or two. If the person responsible cleaned it up and took care of the problem then the risk has been mitigated. There is also an autofail listed at the beginning of the audit checklist that states: “An immediate food safety risk is present (e.g. livestock/poultry slaughter activities) when product is produced, handled, packed, repacked, stored or held under conditions that promote or cause the product to become contaminated”. This would only be used if the auditor noticed that the person responsible didn’t clean up the feces and employees were harvesting the contaminated product.

Note: Dog feces is not as likely to harbour pathogens that have been found to be present in other animal species (e.g., cows, pigs, sheep, etc.)."

 
 

 


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Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

First - addressing this:

 

"The owners have just told me that they were told if the auditor sees the family dog outside (large family farm, with processing plant onsite) that it would be an auto fail!"

 

Gotta love those owners that listen to BS - auto fail? Really - me think not.

 

Having a dog outside the facility and as long as it did not pose a risk (poop, urine, etc) should not be an issue on an audit - it might be a minor or it could be an OIP. However, Auto Fail... no way.  Your owners have to stop listening to non-qualified inputs.


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Scampi

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:09 PM

I agree Glenn!!!!  They're are new to the 3rd party audit scheme of things, and I am not!!!!  I've changed things so drastically already it isn't even the same plan!!

 

The programs are falling apart at the seems because companies are afraid to push back!   The things I have heard since I began this position here have made me soooo frustrated!

 

 

The grounds are kept incredibly neat and tidy, no weeds, 3rd party pest control etc etc, and the dog knows where he can and can't go. 

 

I think alot of business are in the same boat, they are afraid to push back on anything for fear the certificate will be revoked so some "shady" auditors are demanding pie in the sky things and getting away with it!


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Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:18 PM

This article appears to offer support for the presence of dogs in cases such as being discussed here -

 

http://doglawreporte...ant-access.html


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Scampi

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:44 PM

Thank you Charles

 

I will add that too my letter from the CB so I can properly put this discussion to bed


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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:10 PM

First - addressing this:

 

"The owners have just told me that they were told if the auditor sees the family dog outside (large family farm, with processing plant onsite) that it would be an auto fail!"

 

Gotta love those owners that listen to BS - auto fail? Really - me think not.

 

Having a dog outside the facility and as long as it did not pose a risk (poop, urine, etc) should not be an issue on an audit - it might be a minor or it could be an OIP. However, Auto Fail... no way.  Your owners have to stop listening to non-qualified inputs.

 

Given that logic, I guess when an auditor pulls into our parking lot and sees birds and squirrels moving about, he should just email me and say "You Fail".

 

Geeze,
Marshall






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