13 replies to this topic

[Dolly13]

hello everyone

 

I am a trainee in one catering industry which is located in India. our company purchases fresh raw meat which is at room temperature from the slaughterhouse, as a slaughterhouse is near to our restaurant. we consume that meat within 1 hour for gravy preparation. we purchase meat 3 times a day from that slaughterhouse. we don't store raw meat on our premises. I want to know few things which are listed below:-

•  Is this a safe practice?
• Do I have to note down the temperature of meat which is received at room temperature at receiving point?
•  How many documents I have to prepare for ISO audit related to this subject

 

[Arif Resto]

The first suggestion, the temperature is influencing the display of food in other words to keep your food and avoid from the danger temperature as  the result the food is danger and not safe anymore to be eaten. Therefore, this must make sense to the performance of kitchen equipment should be determined as check incorporation. For the complete information please  

 

Read this : https://haccpmentor....ood-cold-rooms/

Edited by Simon, 25 July 2018 - 09:02 AM.

[SQFconsultant]

•  Is this a safe practice?
• Do I have to note down the temperature of meat which is received at room temperature at receiving point?
•  How many documents I have to prepare for ISO audit related to this subject

 

A. NO

That negates answering the other two.

 

Recieve refrigerated 

[Dolly13]

 

•  Is this a safe practice?
• Do I have to note down the temperature of meat which is received at room temperature at receiving point?
•  How many documents I have to prepare for ISO audit related to this subject

 

A. NO

That negates answering the other two.

 

Recieve refrigerated 

 

 

 

Thankyou for your reply sir. I have one last query to ask related to this subject only.,

 

We purchase meat just after slaughtering process, that's why the shopkeeper don't refrigerate it.  In india we have plenty of small scale slaughter house where they sell fresh cut meat, and all these shops are fssai licensed.

 

Our resturent has small scale kitchen, for us purchasing fresh cut meat is only best option. If we cook chicken three times a day., every time we go to the shop for  purchasing fresh cut meat, and then we utilise that meat within one hour for gravy prepration (we do check quality like color,appearance, odour and foreign particles before purchasing).

 

Please review my query once again. We are trying our best to maintain the safety of the food, if your final answer will remain same, then we'll purchase only refrigerated meat.

[Charles.C]

also see -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...at/#entry128898

[jc18]

In the UK there is guidance for practices like this 'warm meat' but it only applies to domestic ungulates, and not poultry. Which means in the UK this practice isn't legal for poultry. 

Here is an old letter from the FSA with more detail: https://www.food.gov...eat-letter.pdf 

 

As I'm not familiar with practices in India, i cant give any further comments. In the UK we are particularly careful with raw chicken - the chill chain raw should never go above 4 deg C. This is due to size of carcass, surface area for micro growth to thrive on and characteristics of micros available (ie anaerobic growth of listeria & salmonella)

 

Not sure if that helps you with the rationale between it being important to receive chilled chicken meat but it might!

 

I see that the third part of your question has been answered in the other part of the thread. 

[Scampi]

While i'm also not familiar with practices in India, I am familiar with poultry slaughter. In Canada, you cannot legally ship above 4C...........the growth of salmonella and ecoli are exponentially higher above 4C.

 

So while I appreciate your purchasing/use patterns, the current system you are describing is not safe.

 

The only way you could possible get around buying chilled meat (if it's really not available) would be to perform swabs for salmonella and ecoli repeatedly and see what shows up.  

 

 

When it comes to this sort of thing the old saying holds

 

Just because you can doesn't mean you should

 

Be a catalyst for change!

[Brendan Triplett]

Hey Dolly,

 

Everyone is pointing you in the right direction.  No it is not safe to receive fresh slaughtered poultry this way (regardless on many times you receive it.    Yes, temperature control is required and when it comes to ISO there must be a way that you can check and maintain temperature.  I would consider it a smart move to find a calibrated measure to get your temperature so that your records are accurate.  Charles answered your third question very effectively in the other thread.

 

Chicken at room temperature is almost entirely unsafe after 2 hours in a normal temperature.  As the temperature rises the life expectancy of that chicken goes down (in regards to food safety).  This is not entirely due to bacteria growth but also to overall spoilage.  You are operating out of India and the temperatures there are often higher which actually decreases the safe eating time of the raw chicken that is already sitting in another facility at room temperature before it comes to you and you have no way of knowing how long they hold it at room temp before it comes to you.  If you have not had a serious outbreak due to your raw chicken I would get together a team to review what you will do when it does happen...  it will happen.

 

Insofar as your other question, the FSSAI licensure is great... for their processes.  The entire purpose of that program is to ensure that the slaughterhouses are not adulterating the product or using substandard products.  They might have safe systems in place but you do not.  Selling it to you is also fine for them to do.  However, the FSSAI does not cover how you handle the meat once it has been received and it is against best practices in the industry to hold fresh chicken anywhere but in a temperature controlled area until it is used.  Instead of only buying refrigerated chicken perhaps you could insulate an area of your facility, that you already use for chicken storage, and then repurpose it for refrigeration.  it would be better for your company anyway.  Hope this helps.

 

Cheers!

[Charles.C]

In the UK there is guidance for practices like this 'warm meat' but it only applies to domestic ungulates, and not poultry. Which means in the UK this practice isn't legal for poultry. 

Here is an old letter from the FSA with more detail: https://www.food.gov...eat-letter.pdf 

 

As I'm not familiar with practices in India, i cant give any further comments. In the UK we are particularly careful with raw chicken - the chill chain raw should never go above 4 deg C. This is due to size of carcass, surface area for micro growth to thrive on and characteristics of micros available (ie anaerobic growth of listeria & salmonella)

 

Not sure if that helps you with the rationale between it being important to receive chilled chicken meat but it might!

 

I see that the third part of your question has been answered in the other part of the thread. 

 

hi jc,

 

Thks for input and Welcome to the Forum !

 

For some reason the link in yr Post fails for me so i have posted the file -

 

 FSA - warm-meat-letter,2013.pdf   151.13KB   13 downloads

 

Just as a contrast,  i noticed this, IMO, rather debatable comment extracted from another FSA document -

 

The temperature of a food may "result in a risk to health" where temperature control is critical to the safety of food. For example, chill holding will not be a requirement where perishable food has been subject to a process that makes is [it?] safe to hold at ambient temperatures, e.g. types of canning. Nor will it be a requirement where raw food will be cooked at a later stage to ensure it is fit for human consumption. An exception will be where it is necessary to comply with product specific hygiene regulations that set out specific temperatures at various stages of the food chain, e.g. for some raw meat.

 

Somewhat OT but while browsing for this topic I noticed this quite detailed, catering oriented, FS compilation including various temperature control aspects - 

 

 ServeSafe UK Food Safety Requirements-Interpretations.pdf   90.19KB   9 downloads

[Brendan Triplett]

Scary how easy it is to find documentation to support anything we decide to do with our food Charles. Do you think that the sentence about the exceptions to the raw food and cooking requirements is enough to save us from eating raw chicken that has been kept in someone’s garage but is intended to be grilled to temp later?

[Charles.C]

Scary how easy it is to find documentation to support anything we decide to do with our food Charles. Do you think that the sentence about the exceptions to the raw food and cooking requirements is enough to save us from eating raw chicken that has been kept in someone’s garage but is intended to be grilled to temp later?

 

Hi Brendan,

 

Indeed, the thought of toxins also comes to mind.

 

Such oddities sometimes have more public consequences, eg this Classic 8th Wonder of the World -

 

https://www.express....t-sausage-rolls

[Scampi]

         Charles

 

Ambient LOL

 

Notice no mention of why they were an issue...........just that consumers were confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gud2ya]

when holding meat at ambient, just keep it below 4 hours

[Brendan Triplett]

Dolly,

FSSAI requires temperature control and a receiving facility appropriate for the product being received, to include chilling. Please review the FSSAI inpsection guidance for receiving meat as well as the section that reviews the food safe requirements for your establishment (attached). I think you are seeing now that this practice that your company has right now is not sustainable and should be reviewed and changed. Hope we were able to help.

Cheers!

 manual of food safety management system, fss act 2006_2.pdf   1.94MB   6 downloads