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Distilled water as a purchased ingredient

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#1 Miri

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 02:08 PM

I'm looking for opinions or actual experience for the following scenario. 

 

We are a flavor manufacturer, and we are experimenting with using ASTM Type II (reagent grade) distilled water as an ingredient.  We purchase it from a reputable lab supply company.  If the experiment is successful, we may need to purchase large quantities to store on-site to use in specific products.  My questions are this:

1.  Is Reagent Grade water OK as a food ingredient?

2.  If #1 is yes, we then run into the issue of not being able to get the usual raw material documentation from the supplier.  Would this be OK for SQF?  I think we could justify approving it as a raw material through our supplier approval process, adding a lot of comments instead of standard information usually available from suppliers.  

 

Any comments or advice is most welcome.

Thank you!



#2 Brendan Triplett

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:07 PM

Hey Miri,

 

Reagent Grade Water can be used for areas that touch food or process areas for food but it is meant for chemical dilution and not meant for ingestion. 


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#3 SQFconsultant

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:08 PM

1. Have you tested it?

2. No, it would not be OK.

3. You can add all the comments you want - fluff is nice - facts and details as required per code are better.


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#4 Miri

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 04:26 PM

1. Have you tested it?

2. No, it would not be OK.

3. You can add all the comments you want - fluff is nice - facts and details as required per code are better.

1.  Tested how and for what?

2.  Why is it not OK?  Because of what it is, or because we can't get the documentation?  

3.  I didn't ask a 3rd question, but you can add all the comments you want, too.   ^_^



#5 Charles.C

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:46 AM

I'm looking for opinions or actual experience for the following scenario. 

 

We are a flavor manufacturer, and we are experimenting with using ASTM Type II (reagent grade) distilled water as an ingredient.  We purchase it from a reputable lab supply company.  If the experiment is successful, we may need to purchase large quantities to store on-site to use in specific products.  My questions are this:

1.  Is Reagent Grade water OK as a food ingredient?

2.  If #1 is yes, we then run into the issue of not being able to get the usual raw material documentation from the supplier.  Would this be OK for SQF?  I think we could justify approving it as a raw material through our supplier approval process, adding a lot of comments instead of standard information usually available from suppliers.  

 

Any comments or advice is most welcome.

Thank you!

 

Hi Miri,

 

I assume yr Product is for US market. (It may relate).

 

The typical answer in numerous threads on this Forum is that the water should meet (User's) Local Drinking Water Standard.

 

"Reagent Grade" has a precise (typically Purity related) meaning from a Specification(S) POV, eg maximum  level of chemical contaminants, eg heavy metals. I believe this "menu" is required to be defined/documented (somewhere).

 

So you need to compare RGS with DWS.

 

I anticipate that USA's DWS (eg bottled drinking water) has requirements for (various) BCP(AR) compliance factors.

i anticipate that RGS contains only (various) PC data.

 

If so, a 3rd Party analysis for the deficiencies will presumably be required.

 

I would also anticipate that USFDA spell out the above requirements (or variations thereof) (somewhere).

 

Afaik, flavours can be highly sensitive to minute variations in chemical composition of certain ingredients so the latter's  suitability from a Product POV may not necessarily correlate to Regulatory compliance. Which i'm sure you know already. :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#6 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:14 PM

I sell distilled and spring water to other food companies in our 5 gallon carboys. We provide a CoC, our SQF certificate, and our test results are available for review.

 

If you're buying random "reagent grade" from amazon or something, it's no different than buying a food ingredient from a random supplier, do your minimum diligence to make sure it's safe and appropriate for use in food.


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#7 Charles.C

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:48 PM

I sell distilled and spring water to other food companies in our 5 gallon carboys. We provide a CoC, our SQF certificate, and our test results are available for review.

 

If you're buying random "reagent grade" from amazon or something, it's no different than buying a food ingredient from a random supplier, do your minimum diligence to make sure it's safe and appropriate for use in food.

 

Hi 3F,

 

I noticed this -

  1. Reagent grade is generally equal to ACS grade (≥95%) and is acceptable for food, drug, or medicinal use and is suitable for use in many laboratory and analytical applications.
    https://www.labmanag...als-and-reagent

And this -

 

Food grade chemical ingredients comply with the Food Chemicals Codex (FCC) is a compendium of internationally recognized monograph standards and tests for the purity and quality of food ingredients, e.g., antimicrobial preservatives, flavors, coloring agents, and minerals. The FCC is beneficial to the food industry because it provides quality standards used in agreements between suppliers and manufacturers in ongoing supply decisions and purchasing transactions

https://www.spectrum...20&respid=22372

 

Hmmm.

 

I think water tends to have it's own niche "Gradings"

 

This is apparently the interpretation of the water in OP -

 

Attached File  ASTM water purity standards.pdf   3.31MB   9 downloads

(Note clause 1.4)

 

So no data heavy metals, no data micro.

 

Hmmm. It all depends ........


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#8 Scampi

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:13 PM

I buy distilled water at my local grocer all the time, but it's not marked reagent grade? And it's used for human consumption (although in a CPAP machine, not for drinking, but still going in a human)

 

I would think reagent grade would be more expensive that regular distilled and therefore cost prohibitive???

 

 

This article says DO NOT STORE IT

www.aquaa.com/which-type-of-reagent-grade-water-do-i-need


Edited by Scampi, 12 September 2018 - 06:13 PM.

Because we always have is never an appropriate response!


#9 Brendan Triplett

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:40 AM

Reagent grade is touchy because of it‘s often specific use for laboratories.  Though a touch different it is often considered laboratory grade product rather than food grade product.  That is not to say that it is entirely unsafe to drink only that it is not promoted as a popular product in food or in homes for consumption.  Laboratory grade products are going to have higher purity standards but may not contain chemicals that are there for humans or may contain low levels of metals or other ferrous materials that you might not see in food grade drinking water.  What I have seen in the past when it comes to choosing a water source is that whatever you use should be tested against the food grade drinking water standard.  ASTM II water is drinkable but is usually cost prohibitive and may affect your final product.  You would benefit from some product sampling with regular potable water versus your intended reagent grade water to see if the difference is  great enough to warrant the cost and the change in ingredient.  Our choice was that it was not and that our guidance to steer away from it was sound.

 

Cheers!


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#10 Charles.C

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:17 AM

Dear All,

 

The basic point is that Drinking Water should be controlled by Drinking Water Standards.

(Other items in a Food context maybe via FCC. I am unsure if FCC includes "water")

(Note that afaik USP is equivalent to FCC for "medical" consumables)

 

The previous thread discussion with its encyclopedia of subjective terminologies illustrates why DWS exist.

 

Reverting to the OP my answers would be -

 

(1) Without specific numbers to justify compliance to above - NO.

(2) N/A


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#11 Hoosiersmoker

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:54 PM

Which ever you decide to use, make sure the manufacturer provides you with an SDS or it's a chemical control non-conformance. That SDS may also provide enough information to verify the use of the distilled water you choose, although I'd guess the information on the SDS would be more like a CoC unless it specifically states "Safe for human consumption or as a food ingredient".


Edited by Hoosiersmoker, 13 September 2018 - 01:55 PM.


#12 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:36 PM

Dear All,

 

The basic point is that Drinking Water should be controlled by Drinking Water Standards.

(Other items in a Food context maybe via FCC. I am unsure if FCC includes "water")

(Note that afaik USP is equivalent to FCC for "medical" consumables)

 

The previous thread discussion with its encyclopedia of subjective terminologies illustrates why DWS exist.

 

Reverting to the OP my answers would be -

 

(1) Without specific numbers to justify compliance to above - NO.

(2) N/A

 

THIS. If it's used in food it needs to be appropriate for drinking water. The mineral content stuff is all depending on other application factors but largely irrelevant in a food safety discussion.


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