24 replies to this topic

[jiljilbean]

hey guys,

 

How would you kill listeria if it is present in the drains? floors?

 

Steam cleaning at a super high temperature?

 

what breaks the biofilm? besides from scrubbing like crazy....Quat based sanitizer?  Bleach?

 

Its a tough S.O.B that always appears!

 

Let me know your thoughts :) 

 

Thanks :)

[The Food Scientist]

I wouldn't scrub like crazy because if you do, it may splash and contaminate surrounding areas. There are many foam based sanitizers that you can apply to the drains and leave for a few minutes that can kill Listeria without the need to scrub like crazy. You can talk to your Sanitation contractor company about that and see your options. Of course after you're done, take swabs, test them and verify. I would also make sure everyone is following GMP in your plant to prevent any cross contamination between the drains and surrounding areas.

Edited by The Food Scientist, 31 May 2019 - 01:26 PM.

[Scampi]

You ARE going to get it in the drains and killing it may be an exercise in futility.

 

However, there are "pigs" that get attached to a water line and are specifically designed for drain cleaning...........i would not attempt this in house, I would hire it out 

 

We can't be experts at everything

[zanorias]

A detergent/foam then sanitiser usually does the trick for me, I'd get one of the night cleaning crew to give it a bit more attention.

However, with listeria the species and location is important to consider. I wouldn't worry too much about non-pathogenic species in your drains; it would be difficult to avoid. I'd certainly monitor the floors and drains but unless it's excessive or a pathogenic species I wouldn't worry too much.

[SQFconsultant]

I worked with Johnson Diversey years ago and they were the first to market a listeria killer ---

 

https://vimeo.com/212971009

[MsMars]

Knock it down with the right cleaners (consult your sanitation chemical company, as stated above), then employ good preventative measures in terms of employee traffic and mitigation (captive shoe, quat-based tracking powders/granules, etc.). 

[jiljilbean]

Thank you all for your insights!

I appreciate it.

 

Thanks Glen. I will check it out!

[LDG_Honey]

Here is what the CFIA recommends: http://www.inspectio...4/1528201904208

 

Reading through, I found, under Enhanced sanitation control, that quaternary ammoniums of peracetic acid combined with scrubbing could help you get rid of biofilms.

 

As a note, If your wastewater isn't going to the sewers, you might want to look closer at your options here. You wouldn't want to kill your leach field.

[jiljilbean]

^{Thank you  LDG_Honey}

 

^{That helps me :)}

[Ryan M.]

I'm partial to BOOST from Ecolab.  It was successful for us at my current company when we had, and I'll say "HAD" past tense, biofilm issues and listeria hits in our drains and floors.  We cleaned and sanitized heavily after a hit, but never were able to fully remove the problem, or biofilm until we started using Ecolab's BOOST product.  It is really a silver bullet because you don't have to scrub the drains.  Just foam or pour it into the drain.  It cleared up everything for us in about a week when we used it daily.  Since then we use it weekly in all of our drains and floors in our wet areas.

 

We haven't had a positive hit in our environmental listeria swabbing since using the product.

 

https://www.ecolab.c...fectant-cleaner

[Zargham Abbas]

Sodium hypochlorite & Quaternary ammonium compounds (400ppm)  have found effective to kill Listeria monocytogenes. The contact time should be 2 minutes.

[jiljilbean]

Thanks Ryan!

I def think its an ongoing battle with listeria.

But that's great you guys got it in check!

And my company works with Ecolab.

 

Thank you Zargham Abbas :)

[Aliali]

If you have narrowed down the source of Listeria is from the drain/floors only, the easier way is to segregate the contaminated areas where possible to minimise the spread of Listeria. 

 

Consult your chemical supplier with the chemical application.. are you using the right product, right cleaning parameters (contact time, temp, concentration and application method). 

 

You can also try leave the suitable sanitiser on the floors and drains after an intensive cleaning. 

 

The other thing is to avoid aerosols.. because Listeria loves water and they can travel with liquid/mist. 

 

hope this helps

[Charles.C]

Product / Process Unknown.

 

Think about it.

[pghosh]

ZEP or Sterilex Biofilm Drain purge chemicals are both very effective in maintaining drains 'clean'. 

[Marshenko]

A flamethrower and safety glasses.

[LDG_Honey]

A flamethrower and safety glasses.

 

I'd suggest a full face shield. Especially if you want to keep your facial hair

[Marshenko]

I'd suggest a full face shield. Especially if you want to keep your facial hair

 

You don't have fire retardant beard guards?  For shame.

[zanorias]

You don't have fire retardant beard guards?  For shame.

I think close proximity to a flame thrower would possibly remove ones beard and thereby necessity for a beard-specific guard

[LDG_Honey]

I usually recommend more protection when working with strong allergens like fire.

 

What? fire isn't an allergen?

 

Everyone is allergic to fire:

  -Inhaling fire can cause respiratory distress and swelling. Just like an allergen.

  -Ingesting fire can cause severe swelling in the throat and nose and trouble digestion. Just like an allergen.

  -Contact to the skin can cause lesions, redness, swelling, blisters and hair loss. Just like an allergen.

 

Ok, I'm done fooling around, I have work to do now.

[dyneemo68]

This is a great conversation, but what about using steam on food contact surfaces? 

 

I understand that 160F-165F for ~15 minutes can provide log reduction of L.mono, but I cannot find any information on tenting and steaming equipment. Specifically, what temperature for what amount of time? Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

Dy

[Scampi]

In theory steam will work as a sterilizer HOWEVER, unless you have perfectly smooth completely non porous surfaces, steam cannot get into small nooks and crannies at a high enough temp for a long enough duration to kill l mono reliably   

 

The only way to produce steam hotter than 100 is to add pressure to the process  which then turns into a H&S risk as you could get a larger burn faster

[John1919]

What is the best practice for cleaning a floor with listeria? Normally I would clean from the swab site to a 12 foot circle branched out. Would it be better to clean the entire rooms floor or just the effected area, and use cluster swabbing or branch out swabbing to see if there is a directional path for the listeria?

[GMO]

Zombie thread!

 

I've got too much experience for this.

 

 

What is the best practice for cleaning a floor with listeria? Normally I would clean from the swab site to a 12 foot circle branched out. Would it be better to clean the entire rooms floor or just the effected area, and use cluster swabbing or branch out swabbing to see if there is a directional path for the listeria?

 

Why would you not clean your floors regularly assuming Listeria is there?  Why only clean once the swab has been found?  So no, I wouldn't just clean the affected area.  I would clean all.

 

Swabs will not pick up all presence of Listeria so while starburst / circle swabbing can sometimes tell you interesting things, it cannot prove absence.  So please stop chasing it round your floors with swabs.  Deal with it now!

 

My recommendation for cleaning effectively for Listeria would be:

 

Remove all food contact equipment as much as you can.  
 

Remove gross debris.  Brush and shovel etc.  Remove waste from drains and replace drain grids.

Apply detergent, ideally as a foam which clings to the surface (talk to your manufacturer for advice on foamers and set up).  During the contact time I WOULD scrub despite advice above.  Yes you will get minor splashing but no scrubbing = biofilms.  YOU MUST SCRUB!  You will not break down the soil without it.

 

The scrubbing time must allow 20-30 minutes contact minimum.

 

Then rinse with low pressure water.  A tote bin with a tap on it can be helpful for this.  Do not use high pressure from a hose due to aerosols.  If you do use a hose make sure the water is just running out with zero pressure.

 

Squeegie water to drain.  

 

Now change PPE and use specific brushes and equipment (we always used brown) to clean the drain, bung and trap.  Soak in detergent etc, scrubbing.  Do not obviously do this in a sink.  Use a bucket only used for drains.  Rinse.  Replace.  (Biofilms often happen in drain traps because of people not cleaning drains as a specific activity.)

 

Change PPE (ideally all disposable and non.)

If you have cleaned equipment in the area this is the time to disinfect everything (it's belt and braces too in case there was any splashing on your floors.)

 

If you REALLY have a problem, disinfect with hypochlorite first.  If it's been a problem on your machines, then disinfect on them too.

 

Wait, c. 15 minutes then rinse, low pressure water etc.

 

Then apply disinfectant again (you don't have to disinfect twice but trust me, this is GMO's method for getting on top of Listeria, if you have a problem, it's worth it.)  Depending on the country, you might or might not be able to use Quats and leave them on.  If you can, use them, they're superb against Listeria.  Even if you're in the EU or UK, I'd be tempted to use them on the floor and use biguanides or similar on food contact.  Then if your process, legislation permits, leave them on.

 

A small word on application of disinfectants.  There are some plants that use the "bucket and chuck it" technique.  Don't.  Most ends up straight to drain.  Use a tote bin for the hypo with slow release to the floors then a specific disinfectant sprayer for your equipment and floor with your quat or biguanide.

 

Steam does have it's place but not on floors.  You never get the temperatures you need.  I would use the Maple Leaf foods technique on steam bagging though for equipment.

[GMO]

Oh and lastly I'm never sure about them but as long as you don't use acidic compounds (ingredients or cleaners) the old hypo tablets in a drain left in during production does no harm in my opinion.