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SQF 2.5.5 Internal Audit Clarification


Best Answer Fred73, 15 October 2019 - 06:57 PM

I think you are referring to clause 2.5.5 (?), "internal audits to verify the effectiveness of the SQF System".

>>>>Please read page #44 of the Mod 2 Guidance Doc.<<<<

 

https://www.sqfi.com...-with-cover.pdf

 

There you will find all answers to your questions.

 

Q1 : "where possible to use personnel who are separate from the area being audited to conduct internal audits"; so yes you can audit your self, it's not recommended but it is accepted.

Q2: "This training need not be “formal” training provided by an external source. Internal auditor training covers internal audit procedures, including the planning and scheduling of internal audits, preparing internal audit reports and initiating and following up on audit findings. Internal audits should combine several information gathering techniques, including interview of personnel, review of records and observation of current conditions."

(you can train him with your experience and go trough the "ISO 19011 pdf" for example).

Q3: the audit include all, your procedures to ensure are up to date with what you are doing in the floor and what is happening in the production area.

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#1 Mark.V

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 05:21 PM

Hello everyone,

 

I have questions about the internal auditing section of SQF Edition 8. I have searched this topic up and down and I am still confused.

 

- The first question I have is can the SQF Practitioner conduct the internal audit? I have seen conflicting answers to this during my search.

- If the SQF Practitioner cannot conduct the audit...is it possible to get my SQF back-up to? What credentials are required for this? Does it have to be formal training or could I (the SQF Practitioner with former auditing experience and certificate) train this individual?  

 

- I have downloaded the SQF Checklist and will be following this. The audit includes both a site and desk audit portion?

 

I know I posted a lot of questions but I just could not find the answer to all of them and I want to be sure. Any information you have on this topic is greatly appreciated!

 

Ps.Our SQF consultant is unavailable to conduct our internal audit.

 

Mark

 

 



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#2 SQFconsultant

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 05:58 PM

Mark, what internal audit are you referring to?

 

There are many forms of internal audits.

 

Are you asking about the yearly review where the entire system is reviewed, etc or something else?

 

and please, why would a consultant do the audit for you?


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC Group | +1.800.793.7042 | Serving the Food, Food Packaging & Food Storage Industries
SQF Development, Implementation, eContinuity & Certification Consultants 
 
In a nutshell we help small to large businesses to get their act together (as needed), help them to co-develop
entire SQF documentation systems, make recommendations as to installations and repairs in order
to get certified and continue with on-going support thru our popular eConsultant program and we do
all within 30 days so your staff can implement with our assistance to retain and get new business!
 
Serving the new Republic of the United States of America & Alliance Countries

http://www.GlennOster.com


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#3 Fred73

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 06:57 PM   Best Answer

I think you are referring to clause 2.5.5 (?), "internal audits to verify the effectiveness of the SQF System".

>>>>Please read page #44 of the Mod 2 Guidance Doc.<<<<

 

https://www.sqfi.com...-with-cover.pdf

 

There you will find all answers to your questions.

 

Q1 : "where possible to use personnel who are separate from the area being audited to conduct internal audits"; so yes you can audit your self, it's not recommended but it is accepted.

Q2: "This training need not be “formal” training provided by an external source. Internal auditor training covers internal audit procedures, including the planning and scheduling of internal audits, preparing internal audit reports and initiating and following up on audit findings. Internal audits should combine several information gathering techniques, including interview of personnel, review of records and observation of current conditions."

(you can train him with your experience and go trough the "ISO 19011 pdf" for example).

Q3: the audit include all, your procedures to ensure are up to date with what you are doing in the floor and what is happening in the production area.



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#4 Mark.V

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 11:19 AM

Thank you for the response, it is quiet helpful!

 

To answer your question SQFconsultant, our consultant told us they were able to conduct this internal audit should they be available, but that is not the case. I guess because they are considered a third party and not the ones actually doing the certification audit it is acceptable?

 

 

Mark


Edited by Mark.V, 16 October 2019 - 11:22 AM.


#5 Charles.C

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 03:58 PM

I think you are referring to clause 2.5.5 (?), "internal audits to verify the effectiveness of the SQF System".

>>>>Please read page #44 of the Mod 2 Guidance Doc.<<<<

 

https://www.sqfi.com...-with-cover.pdf

 

There you will find all answers to your questions.

 

Q1 : "where possible to use personnel who are separate from the area being audited to conduct internal audits"; so yes you can audit your self, it's not recommended but it is accepted.

Q2: "This training need not be “formal” training provided by an external source. Internal auditor training covers internal audit procedures, including the planning and scheduling of internal audits, preparing internal audit reports and initiating and following up on audit findings. Internal audits should combine several information gathering techniques, including interview of personnel, review of records and observation of current conditions."

(you can train him with your experience and go trough the "ISO 19011 pdf" for example).

Q3: the audit include all, your procedures to ensure are up to date with what you are doing in the floor and what is happening in the production area.

 

Hi Fred,

 

Thks yr input.

I don't quite agree that the first statement quoted in Q1 necessarily justifies yr appended 2nd part.

The actual text is  -

 

To ensure the objectiveness of the internal audit the supplier are required where possible to use personnel who are
separate  from  the  area  being  audited  to  conduct  internal  audits.  The  inclusion  of  the  words  “where  possible”
illustrates that in the case of some very small suppliers this may not be possible. In such cases, the supplier is
required to demonstrate that the alternative internal audit arrangement meets the objective of this requirement
and is communicated to all affected parties.

 


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#6 Mark.V

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 03:17 PM

Hi Charles!

 

We do have a small company, as I am the only food safety personnel here. I guess having myself conduct the audit vs. not doing it at all is a better choice at this point :lol2:

 

Thanks for the input! Greatly appreciate everyone for taking the time to help me out.

 

Mark



#7 SQFconsultant

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 05:08 PM

Thank you for the response, it is quiet helpful!

 

To answer your question SQFconsultant, our consultant told us they were able to conduct this internal audit should they be available, but that is not the case. I guess because they are considered a third party and not the ones actually doing the certification audit it is acceptable?

 

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

 

I really don't want to step on your consultant's toes, however it is not a consultant that should be doing your review, it is facility personnel that should undertake the review. As an SQF Consultant I would never ever undertake a review for one of our clients, I have been present during a review and have signed off on the statement that I participated. But I think you will find it quite helpful if  you will undertake yourself and senior management.

 

As an former SQF Auditor I would question why an internal audit was done 100% by an outsider and not by those that are imtimate to their system.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC Group | +1.800.793.7042 | Serving the Food, Food Packaging & Food Storage Industries
SQF Development, Implementation, eContinuity & Certification Consultants 
 
In a nutshell we help small to large businesses to get their act together (as needed), help them to co-develop
entire SQF documentation systems, make recommendations as to installations and repairs in order
to get certified and continue with on-going support thru our popular eConsultant program and we do
all within 30 days so your staff can implement with our assistance to retain and get new business!
 
Serving the new Republic of the United States of America & Alliance Countries

http://www.GlennOster.com


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#8 Mark.V

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 05:25 PM

Hi Mark,

 

I really don't want to step on your consultant's toes, however it is not a consultant that should be doing your review, it is facility personnel that should undertake the review. As an SQF Consultant I would never ever undertake a review for one of our clients, I have been present during a review and have signed off on the statement that I participated. But I think you will find it quite helpful if  you will undertake yourself and senior management.

 

As an former SQF Auditor I would question why an internal audit was done 100% by an outsider and not by those that are imtimate to their system.

 

Hi SQFConsultant,

 

Thanks for informing me on this. I am new to SQF and getting used to the requirements of the code so I didn't question it at the time. I do agree with you, the review should be done by someone that knows the system. I am going to complete this review going forward. I am not sure if our consultant meant to imply that they would sign off (like you mentioned) as opposed do actually doing the review, maybe I misinterpreted. 

 

I appreciate your expertise!

 

Mark



#9 CMHeywood

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 07:49 PM

General rule of thumb:  you should not be auditing your own department.



#10 Mark.V

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 11:35 AM

General rule of thumb:  you should not be auditing your own department.

 

Hello!

 

Yes I am aware and agree. I am the only food safety personnel here. The backup (at the moment) cannot conduct this either or will not do a suffice job. I would have liked to avoid auditing my own work but due to our company's small size, it is hard to get around. It does state in the guidance document that if the company is very small it may be accepted. I may have to take the heat on this one if the auditor does not agree that we fall under this category.

 

At this point, either I conduct the audit or it does not get done. For the next internal audit, I hope to avoid this.






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