31 replies to this topic

[Andy_Yellows]

Not wishing to contradict the outpouring of cynicism, which is something I fully endorse after many years in QA ( ), but has no-one else ever experienced the opposite effect from having repeat audits with the same auditor?
If the first audit goes well, you develop a rapport with the auditor, and pass with a very good result, have you never found that when they come back the next year they're somewhat more relaxed, and may be more likely to accept things with a lesser degree of probing?

 

100%. Rightly or wrongly, it's amazing how many times 'oh yeah that's right you don't do/have x, y and z do you' gets you out of a sticky situation or a difficult and squirmy explanation to a question a first-time visitor would have asked. Furthermore if you can remember how they take their tea before they have to tell you, you're probably halfway there!

 

In my audit this year I learned rather a lot about Zanzibar after asking her about her travels last year that she'd told me about in the audit before. Small things make a difference!

[QM-OS]

Not wishing to contradict the outpouring of cynicism, which is something I fully endorse after many years in QA ( ), but has no-one else ever experienced the opposite effect from having repeat audits with the same auditor?
If the first audit goes well, you develop a rapport with the auditor, and pass with a very good result, have you never found that when they come back the next year they're somewhat more relaxed, and may be more likely to accept things with a lesser degree of probing?

 

 

No, opposite in fact, hence my cynisism...

 

That's also something that fascinate me with this audit"world". Even if you have a standard like BRC, with the rules written down, you have to follow the written words, each auditor still interpret them differently!

Edited by QM-OS, 19 November 2019 - 02:27 PM.

[trubertq]

One of my clients has had to change CBs twice in the last 3 years because the original CB which they were with for 7 years cancelled 3 weeks before their audit because they had " double booked" the auditor. We managed to get another CB at short notice because we had the contact details of a previous auditor who had moved to this CB. Then this year this CB wanted to send an auditor who consulted for competitors so we had to refuse this and they didn't have an alternative. So we're on our 3rd CB in as many years for no nefarious reason.

So, don't always jump to the conclusion people are being dishonest.

[MlissaB]

Not wishing to contradict the outpouring of cynicism, which is something I fully endorse after many years in QA ( ), but has no-one else ever experienced the opposite effect from having repeat audits with the same auditor?
If the first audit goes well, you develop a rapport with the auditor, and pass with a very good result, have you never found that when they come back the next year they're somewhat more relaxed, and may be more likely to accept things with a lesser degree of probing?

 

We've actually seen this within our company with multiple sites. Plant XYZ says they do it just like Plant ABC and the auditor takes them at their word. I struggle with this because 1) I know it isn't true and 2) I think each plant should still need to explain the process to demonstrate they know what  is going on.

[QAGB]

One of my clients has had to change CBs twice in the last 3 years because the original CB which they were with for 7 years cancelled 3 weeks before their audit because they had " double booked" the auditor. We managed to get another CB at short notice because we had the contact details of a previous auditor who had moved to this CB. Then this year this CB wanted to send an auditor who consulted for competitors so we had to refuse this and they didn't have an alternative. So we're on our 3rd CB in as many years for no nefarious reason.

So, don't always jump to the conclusion people are being dishonest.

 

 

Valid point here. Some things are just out of our control, but I imagine this is the exception to the rule. Sounds like the company in the OPs post isn't doing this because of a lack of alternatives though. I would imagine a company that isn't being dishonest would have no qualms about sharing the reason why they had to switch so many times. The OP apparently had a bit of pushback to get that question answered, and the answer still makes me raise my eyebrow a bit. 

[hello.fizz]

Very interesting! In my previous role, we changed CBs twice in 4 years. The first change was because the audit (just before I joined) was managed very poorly with unreasonable CARS and the auditor's last day at the company was the last day of the audit.. So when my employer complained about the audit someone new had to interpret the auditors notes and report.

 

We then changed again 4 years later as a big customer decided they would list what CB's we could use and the one we changed to was not on the list. So we went back to the first CB. 

 

Each year with the 'in between' CB, we had a different auditor and found they audited 'much harder' as they all came from meat/high risk backgrounds and we were a low risk business. It was like the auditors knew they were unlikely to be auditing us again and dug very deep. We also got charged travel expenses for each audit as the CB had already booked the local auditor. 

 

After changing back to the local CB, the local auditor was much fairer and had worked in a similar business so could assess our program more realistically. We did have an auditor travel in for the SQF unannounced audit (which lined up with the auditors rotation) and that went well. 

[SQFconsultant]

Interesting.

Nost of my clients continue to use the one we suggested... some are going on now for years now.