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Quantifiable temperature value for hot water for handwashing


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#1 maylao123

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 12:04 AM

We have a CFIA section 4 audit last month and there is a comment saying no quantifiable value for hot water during the pre-op check. So that means we have to provide a measure to verify the water temperature. But we do not know what's standards to set the temperature range. Any advice? We are federal registered RTE meat company. Thanks.



#2 SQFconsultant

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 12:26 AM

Yes, establish a range and a way to test.


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#3 BostonCream

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 10:11 PM

Can you please describe the purpose of that hot water (cleaning, thawing, cooking, others)?



#4 maylao123

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 10:59 PM

Can you please describe the purpose of that hot water (cleaning, thawing, cooking, others)?

Based on FSEP A.Premise 3.2 it says :"The water temperature is warm enough to soften residues on hands and allow the soap to produce the lather needed to remove waste and contaminants but comfortable for the hands."

 

I think the CFIA auditor would like us to have a temperature set for hand washing. But I don't know what temperature should be sufficient.



#5 maylao123

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 11:00 PM

Yes, establish a range and a way to test.

Based on FSEP A.Premise 3.2 it says :"The water temperature is warm enough to soften residues on hands and allow the soap to produce the lather needed to remove waste and contaminants but comfortable for the hands."

 

I think the CFIA auditor would like us to have a temperature set for hand washing. But I don't know what temperature should be sufficient.



#6 Charles.C

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:04 PM

Hi maylao,

 

I don't know about CFIA's specific requirements (I would not call the quote in previous post "quantitative")  but there has been extensive Literature work done on appropriate temperatures for water/handwashing.

Much of the work/links is detailed in older threads here.


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#7 BostonCream

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 03:23 PM

I have never heard of an auditor/government agency asking to monitor hand-washing water temperature.... Usually they just confirm the water is warm, and we include this check in pre-op, that's it. 



#8 maylao123

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 09:10 PM

Hi maylao,

 

I don't know about CFIA's specific requirements (I would not call the quote in previous post "quantitative")  but there has been extensive Literature work done on appropriate temperatures for water/handwashing.

Much of the work/links is detailed in older threads here.

 

 

Thanks, Charles. The wording "quantitative" is exactly what CFIA write on our CAR and request us to provide corrective action. I am trying to look into the previous threads for any luck.



#9 maylao123

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 09:12 PM

I have never heard of an auditor/government agency asking to monitor hand-washing water temperature.... Usually they just confirm the water is warm, and we include this check in pre-op, that's it. 

Me either. It's my first time dealing with CFIA audit in a Federally registered meat plant and got a CAR on this one. Totally no clue on it.  Thanks.



#10 Fishlady

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 07:13 PM

I remember having to check that hand washing water temperature was at least 100 degrees F, for the US Department of Commerce/NOAA Seafood Inspection Program standards. I imagine that CFIA would want a similar temperature.



#11 Charles.C

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 03:37 AM

Thanks, Charles. The wording "quantitative" is exactly what CFIA write on our CAR and request us to provide corrective action. I am trying to look into the previous threads for any luck.

 

Hi maylao,

 

The 2 links below contain considerable  (referenced) information/attachments on this topic plus multiple links to backward threads -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...emperature-486/

(2016)

https://www.ifsqn.co...ing-water-temp/

(2014)

 

From personal discomfort while adjusting racks in a water-bath set for E,coli at 44degC, I would not support any suggestions over 40degC :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#12 majoy

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 05:35 PM

If the auditor is relating this to the pre-op check, this has something to do with your chemicals used in your facility. Some chemicals have required water temperature to be effective, so you have to check with your chemical supplier and from there see if your water temperature is acceptable or not, and from there you can base your standard, and monitoring of water temp - we use a thermometer for this and recorded on the cleaning form.


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