11 replies to this topic

[Carmargab7]

I am currently struggling with our EMP program with zone 1's.  We test for APC, TEC, Mold and Yeast for Zone 1 and then Salmonella, Listeria, and E-Coli for Zone 2-4.  We have a cold extrusion room, no water is used, just powders and Oils. They mostly do a dry clean I would say since we cannot have water in mixers, equipment, etc. I am struggling to find acceptable/unacceptable ranges for their room.  Their counts are a lot higher than when I swab baking, is it just because of the process with no heat and no kill step?  Does the cleaning procedures need to be revised? I'm also not certain on if I am using the correct indicators for Zone 1, what does APC and TEC really indicate, I have tried researching but not finding exactly what I'm looking for. I need a basic rundown...

[olenazh]

Your indicators and their range should base on RA, regulatory requirements and customer standards - that's first. Second, your explanation's pretty confusing: What "their counts"? "Swab baking" - ??? People'd need more detailed description of your processes/rooms/etc. Third - what's included in your EMP program, what do you test - air, water, surfaces and which for what? APC is quite general testing as it shows you all bacteria with no specifics, to me it's just waste of money. TEC is Total Coliform? TC indicates all coliform group organisms in your sample including E. Coli. There's some scientific info in internet, try this RE: water testing: https://www.ncceh.ca..._Jan_2013_0.pdf    

[Carmargab7]

Sorry, we have a Cold Extrusion room with no kill step, then Baking (using ovens for baked treats), and Hot extrusion (using steam). TEC - Total Enterobacteriaceae Count.  We do surface testing with swabs.  The APC results always come back a lot higher in Cold Extrusion than when we swab in baking or hot extrusion. 

[olenazh]

What results do you currently have for both rooms? Why did you choose APC and TEC as indicators?

[Carmargab7]

Baking is 1500 or lower, Packaging is 100 or lower, HOt Extrusion is 1000 or lower, then Cold extrusion is 46000 to 600000...

 

Honestly just research, we used to test for Salmonella, Listeria, and E-Coli for all 4 zones then moved to the indicators for zone 1. 

[Charles.C]

Baking is 1500 or lower, Packaging is 100 or lower, HOt Extrusion is 1000 or lower, then Cold extrusion is 46000 to 600000...

 

Honestly just research, we used to test for Salmonella, Listeria, and E-Coli for all 4 zones then moved to the indicators for zone 1. 

 

Are the powders/oils for food or ?

 

What are the units, eg 1500 per what ?

 

What does a "dry clean" mean ? Vacuuming ?

 

Some idea of "clean surfaces" here -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ces/#entry60958

[Carmargab7]

Powder/oil/flour etc, for dog food/treats.

 

CFU/swab

 

Dry cleaning, yes vacuuming, scraping, air hose

[olenazh]

As APC include Y&M, your ingredients (the source of oil - plants, I suppose) might contribute into such a high count. I was told once by a lab scientist that this may be a case when asked about similar matter. Why don't you choose other indicator - say, Coliforms or Listeria?

[Charles.C]

Powder/oil/flour etc, for dog food/treats.

 

CFU/swab

 

Dry cleaning, yes vacuuming, scraping, air hose

 

Thks for info.

Unfortunately "per swab" doesn't work for comparison purposes. One needs to know the surface area used for the swab ??

Eg See the link in my previous Post.

[Ryan M.]

Do you use any type of sanitizer after the cleaning?  I understand equipment needs to remain dry, but there are options for a sanitizer that dries quickly such as alcohol based sanitizers.

 

If you clean a surface you are not removing bacteria, you are removing soil buildup.  Surface may "look clean", but bacteria will be present and a sanitizer is required to reduce the bacterial load on the surface.

Edited by Ryan M., 01 September 2020 - 09:47 PM.

[kettlecorn]

I haven't used this product, but you might look into it or something similar. It would augment your current cleaning process and also allow you to sanitize without adding water. 

 

https://www.ecolab.c...r-and-sanitizer

[kingstudruler1]

I haven't used this product, but you might look into it or something similar. It would augment your current cleaning process and also allow you to sanitize without adding water. 
 
https://www.ecolab.c...r-and-sanitizer

I don't personally use this product but know others that do. It is a great option. Alpet D2 is another good option

vacuuming, scraping, and air hose (which should never be used in my opinion) are not super effective at reducing bacteria