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What did your employer do if the SQF practitioner quit before the incoming audit ?


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chenyunl

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:11 PM

Hello guys, I am a QA Manager and SQF Practitioner in my current company, but I am leaving in one week, because I got a new job !!!!! I did a post 3 months ago regarding my working situation, which you can find from here: https://www.ifsqn.co...ze/#entry169259

 

I gave the current employer 3 weeks notice, and now I am trying my best to transition everything I know to the new guy who will be here next week for 3 days only....because he is still working as well. Our unannouced SQF recertification has been scheduled between July and Sep this year. In fact, there will be two unannounced SQF audits coming, because we have two different facilities with over 200 employees. I am the only one handling all the audits. Today, my boss just asked me if I could come back to do the audit for those days. If I remember right, only full-time employee can do the audit, right ? So, are there any ways to just delay the audits so that they can have enough time to prepare? BTW, I can feel now if something goes wrong, it would be my fault for sure. Thank you 

 

 

 

 



EVG

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:26 PM

Hello,

 

Edition 8 require SQF Practitioner to be full time employee (2.1.2.5 i). Edition 9 only requires that the SQF practitioner must be "employed by the site" (2.1.1.5 i). However, Edition 9 also requires a substitute SQF Practitioner.

 

Best regards.



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wmlacey

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:30 PM

A 200 employee company with multiple sites should at the very least have one sub SQF practitioner to provide auxiliary support to you in general and help assuage a situation like the one your company is in now. It's not surprising that SQF 9 has mandated the naming of a sub practitioner.

 

My advice would be to help the incoming employee as much as you can but in the end, the company seems ill-prepared and that isn't your fault. And yes, you need to be a full-time employee so you wouldn't be able to return specifically for the audit.



Spidey

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:31 PM

I was in a similar situation a few years ago when I quit a laboratory compliance position to work for my family's food company.  My previous company did everything they could to guilt trip me into giving them more time to train my replacement and smooth the transition.  They played on the fact that compliance was my baby, my project that I built almost from the ground-up.  I was also in a similar situation as your previous post, where I was in desperate need of help and was constantly being promised an assistant that I never got.  The person chosen as my replacement was the assistant that I was promised but never given.

 

I know that it may feel like it's your fault if something goes wrong in their future audits, but at the end of the day, your (soon to be previous) company is at fault for never training a back-up.  This is the reason why back-up practitioners are required.

 

In response to your question about a practitioner being employed full-time, the SQF Ask Us Anything Webinar Questions addresses this topic:

 

Question:  The requirement "employed full time basis" for the SQF practitioner and substitute was removed, correct?

Answer:  The requirement was reworded to read, "Be employed by the site."  The intent is that the site is committed to food safety personnel and is not a consultant.  The SQF Practitioner does not need to be full time or may have other roles and responsibilities, depending on the site.



chenyunl

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:35 PM

Thank you. I guess the best I can do right now is to give that new guy my number to contact me for any help. I have been with this company for just over 7 years out of college, so I just don't want to see something going so bad. 

 

A 200 employee company with multiple sites should at the very least have one sub SQF practitioner to provide auxiliary support to you in general and help assuage a situation like the one your company is in now. It's not surprising that SQF 9 has mandated the naming of a sub practitioner.

 

My advice would be to help the incoming employee as much as you can but in the end, the company seems ill-prepared and that isn't your fault. And yes, you need to be a full-time employee so you wouldn't be able to return specifically for the audit.



chenyunl

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:43 PM

Thank you for sharing your experience ! This is basically my first job out of college, and I have been with this company for just over 7 years. I am actually growing with this company from just 90 employees to 200+ now. I think that it is just time to move on and learn something new when I am still young. They did eventually give me a supervisor to help me out two months ago, but he was just promoted internally from the tech, so he really has no idea about the auditing things. Now, the situation is getting tough. Anyway, I will still try my best to train the replacement. 

I was in a similar situation a few years ago when I quit a laboratory compliance position to work for my family's food company.  My previous company did everything they could to guilt trip me into giving them more time to train my replacement and smooth the transition.  They played on the fact that compliance was my baby, my project that I built almost from the ground-up.  I was also in a similar situation as your previous post, where I was in desperate need of help and was constantly being promised an assistant that I never got.  The person chosen as my replacement was the assistant that I was promised but never given.

 

I know that it may feel like it's your fault if something goes wrong in their future audits, but at the end of the day, your (soon to be previous) company is at fault for never training a back-up.  This is the reason why back-up practitioners are required.

 

In response to your question about a practitioner being employed full-time, the SQF Ask Us Anything Webinar Questions addresses this topic:



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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:25 PM

Seems to me if the new person coming in is experienced they will have at least a 90 day or so period of time to get up to speed on your SQF system and facility. That should be enough time.

With special exceptions you can re-set an SQF Audit letting your CB know the exact details as to justification for the dwlay but asking and getting are two different things.

On the subject of you coming in for the audits as the SQF Practitioner that will not fly due (amoung others) to the requirement for this person to be full time with position of responsibility at that location and technically at a nearby sister facility.

Question is since SQF requires a provision to cover - who is the current equal to you.. this person and your new person should be involved.

The company may also want to get an experienced SQF Consultant to either sit in or be available remotely and on the side if personnel run into an issue.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC BUSINESS GROUP | SQF System Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants
Internal Auditor Training - eConsultant - Pre & Post SQF-GAP Audits - Consultant Training
Visit us @ http://www.GlennOster.com  or call us @ 772.646.4115 US-EST 8am-4pm Anyday except Thursday
 
 

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TimG

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 03:03 PM

Good morning Chenyunl,

Congratulations on the new position!

It was extraordinarily exceptional of you to give 3 weeks notice to help your current company transition. You have gone above and beyond your responsibility to your current employer. It is your current employers responsibility to allocate sufficient resources (management commitment) to achieve their goals.

This is a bit off track from your original question, however there is a reason I am pointing this out. I have had 2 separate instances where a well meaning, though misguided, sense of responsibility to a previous employer took time away from and interfered with a new hires training, onboarding, etc. It never resulted in a termination but it did result in an uncomfortable discussion, which I am hoping my advice helps you avoid.

You have a responsibility to yourself and your soon to be employer that supersedes that of your current employer. I caution you to make sure you don't let a misguided sense of honor jeopardize the relationship with your soon to be future employer.



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Scampi

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 03:39 PM

Congrats and good luck in your new role!!!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with TimG

 

You're allegiance to yourself and your NEW employer only.   

 

If your previous employer gets a less than stellar mark its on them, 100%--hence the senior management commitment portion of SQF

 

WIth age and experience comes wisdom--------you owe nothing to your previous employer once you walk out the door.

 

My pp was so bad, I gave zero notice--was still within their 90 day proby timeframe. I know I made the right decision on that and would do it again in similar situation

 

Chin up, shoulders back and move on with your life-because after all, that's what it is, YOURS!


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


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gagansaini1

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 07:00 PM

I believe you should help the new personnel taking SQF Practitioner position at your current job. For the audit SQF requirement is for full time employee as SQF Practitioner, so you cannot be there for the audit time. You can leave your contact number with the new Person joining if he/she get stuck somewhere or need help.

 

Congrats and good luck for the new endeavors...



Charles.C

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:04 PM

I believe you should help the new personnel taking SQF Practitioner position at your current job. For the audit SQF requirement is for full time employee as SQF Practitioner, so you cannot be there for the audit time. You can leave your contact number with the new Person joining if he/she get stuck somewhere or need help.

 

Congrats and good luck for the new endeavors...

 

Hi gagansaini,

 

^^^(red) - See Posts 2,4. Now apparently not.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 11 April 2021 - 02:14 PM

This is an interesting thing Charles. I am always amazed by the seemingly strange things that SQF eliminates - full time however can be difficult to determine as it could mean number of days, number of hours etc.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC BUSINESS GROUP | SQF System Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants
Internal Auditor Training - eConsultant - Pre & Post SQF-GAP Audits - Consultant Training
Visit us @ http://www.GlennOster.com  or call us @ 772.646.4115 US-EST 8am-4pm Anyday except Thursday
 
 

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Ryan M.

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 02:41 PM

Make yourself available for a fee.  Be sure to set the time requirements and fee requirements up before you leave.



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Rv16

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 03:11 PM

First, congrat!

 

I agree with everyone, not your problem! It is one thing if you just moved to another role within the company, it would be nice of you to come and SIT in the audit and help answering some question. If you changed company, it is not on your shoulder to worry about this audit. The new person know exactly what they just signed up for when they took this job over for you. I have started 3 weeks before an SQF audit from a different company making different product (they actually were FSSC, so i knew nothing about SQF). However, i knew exactly what I signed up for when i accepted the role and have pulled many hours learning the new process.



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chenyunl

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 10:38 PM

Hello profesionals, 

 

I would like to say THANK YOU for all your responses, which really helped me a lot mentally, because my boss did mentioned to me several times about coming back to do the audits for both plants. I was not sure if he really mean it or just wanna see my response, but I did not promise anything. I met the new guy yesterday and showed him where he can find all SQF related documents and records. I will do a full day training with the new guy again tomorrow.

 

The new guy is SQF practitioner certified, so I guess that he should be able to handle the audits. I also gave him my phone number. If he has any questions, he can text me. In addition, they just hired another QA manager who is also SQF practitioner certified for the incoming night shift in May, so I think that two QA managers work together for the incoming SQF audit should be good enough. Also, the boss aleady told the plant manager, who was the QA manager before and SQF practitioner to assist them to prepare the audits, so there would be three managers working on it. I really don't see that something would go wrong.

 

Thank you guys again !

 

First, congrat!

 

I agree with everyone, not your problem! It is one thing if you just moved to another role within the company, it would be nice of you to come and SIT in the audit and help answering some question. If you changed company, it is not on your shoulder to worry about this audit. The new person know exactly what they just signed up for when they took this job over for you. I have started 3 weeks before an SQF audit from a different company making different product (they actually were FSSC, so i knew nothing about SQF). However, i knew exactly what I signed up for when i accepted the role and have pulled many hours learning the new process.

 

 

Make yourself available for a fee.  Be sure to set the time requirements and fee requirements up before you leave.

 

 

I believe you should help the new personnel taking SQF Practitioner position at your current job. For the audit SQF requirement is for full time employee as SQF Practitioner, so you cannot be there for the audit time. You can leave your contact number with the new Person joining if he/she get stuck somewhere or need help.

 

Congrats and good luck for the new endeavors...

 

 

Congrats and good luck in your new role!!!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with TimG

 

You're allegiance to yourself and your NEW employer only.   

 

If your previous employer gets a less than stellar mark its on them, 100%--hence the senior management commitment portion of SQF

 

WIth age and experience comes wisdom--------you owe nothing to your previous employer once you walk out the door.

 

My pp was so bad, I gave zero notice--was still within their 90 day proby timeframe. I know I made the right decision on that and would do it again in similar situation

 

Chin up, shoulders back and move on with your life-because after all, that's what it is, YOURS!

 

 

Good morning Chenyunl,

Congratulations on the new position!

It was extraordinarily exceptional of you to give 3 weeks notice to help your current company transition. You have gone above and beyond your responsibility to your current employer. It is your current employers responsibility to allocate sufficient resources (management commitment) to achieve their goals.

This is a bit off track from your original question, however there is a reason I am pointing this out. I have had 2 separate instances where a well meaning, though misguided, sense of responsibility to a previous employer took time away from and interfered with a new hires training, onboarding, etc. It never resulted in a termination but it did result in an uncomfortable discussion, which I am hoping my advice helps you avoid.

You have a responsibility to yourself and your soon to be employer that supersedes that of your current employer. I caution you to make sure you don't let a misguided sense of honor jeopardize the relationship with your soon to be future employer.

 

 

Seems to me if the new person coming in is experienced they will have at least a 90 day or so period of time to get up to speed on your SQF system and facility. That should be enough time.

With special exceptions you can re-set an SQF Audit letting your CB know the exact details as to justification for the dwlay but asking and getting are two different things.

On the subject of you coming in for the audits as the SQF Practitioner that will not fly due (amoung others) to the requirement for this person to be full time with position of responsibility at that location and technically at a nearby sister facility.

Question is since SQF requires a provision to cover - who is the current equal to you.. this person and your new person should be involved.

The company may also want to get an experienced SQF Consultant to either sit in or be available remotely and on the side if personnel run into an issue.






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