13 replies to this topic

[cosmicbrat]

Hi all, we are new to the GFSI game and trying to decide whether do IFS or SQF. Background info: we are a small business manufacturing dried herbs and teas. After some consultation, we were convinced that SQF was the way to go as it is a widely recognized program in North America (Canada). Now that we are in knee deep of putting documents together, we are finding some of the required programs (food processing) do not make sense to our operation. I feel that it is fine and dandy for medium to large business with a lot of volume but not for us. So after looking around, I found IFS which makes me think may be we should look at BRC or IFS as they seem to be a tad simpler and not so document and/or procedure heavy. We have a GFSI consultant that only does SQF -- When asked about this his input is a little biased towards SQF. So I need a different input: 1. If we go IFS, is it widely recognized in North America. 2. Anyone in North America that is BRC? How has that been going?? Thank you for looking...

[SQFconsultant]

It's an interesting mix.

 

IFS has tens of thousands of certifications - mostly outside the US, it just never really seemed to catch on here and some years ago our company decided to become IFS Consultants, however even after all the getting up to speed with IFS was done we found no takers - I have rarely even seen an company in the US that is IFS.

 

Each of these - SQF, IFS and BRC have their quarks.

 

Boiling down, BRC is a bit more involved than SQF - more maintenance, etc.

 

IFS is similar in nature to both.

 

As Consultants we have found SQF to have ease of implementation and maintenance for the long-haul - thus the reason why we have been consulting on SQF for about 13 years now.

 

For our own food company, we selected SQF - yes, of course we developed our own documentation system.

 

Most Do-it-yourselfers get into a self-hair-pulling session - that might be when a good consultant can provide guideance - makes the road a lot easier when  you realize that most of what is in the SQF manual applies to your business.

 

The size of the company does not matter, we have had clients with 2 people and with 5000 .

[pHruit]

The North American suppliers with whom I have dealings all seem to have SQF, although Canada seems to be slightly more mixed, with a few BRC and FSSC22000s in there.

I'd suggest speaking with some of your key customers to see if they have any significant preferences. In theory the GFSI-benchmarked schemes are all equal, but some regions seem to view certain ones as more equal than others (e.g. BRC here in the UK).

 

Part of the challenge of starting out on schemes like these, is learning how to interpret what the various clauses really mean/want, as without that I can see why some of the elements may seem irrelevant/OTT for your business. It's why consultants like Glenn can be very useful if you're going into it from a cold start without any background familiarity - even if not writing the whole system for you, having someone with the relevant knowledge to get you started on the right path and assist with specific queries can make life a lot easier

[Hoosiersmoker]

I would make sure your whole customer base supports whatever scheme you decide on. Bottom line is the bottom line, if they don't accept your certification it really isn't worth the paper it's printed on. There is a giant retailer (it rhymes with bosco) that doesn't accept some SQF certifications in the US but does in Canada??? Not sure why that is but I read it with my own eyes and couldn't believe it, unless they've since changed it.

[SQFconsultant]

Costco does accept SQF, however they want their own addendum done as well by the Auditor and generally speaking that means you can only use the CB's that are approved for completing the addendum.

[Hoosiersmoker]

I stand corrected, it is the CB that may be disallowed, not scheme, but that begs the question If the CB is approved by GFSI, why are they not by "Bosco"?

[SQFconsultant]

I stand corrected, it is the CB that may be disallowed, not scheme, but that begs the question If the CB is approved by GFSI, why are they not by "Bosco"?

 

Ah, grasshopper... that is because of Costco's Approved Supplier program, or in this case Approved Certifying Body program --  make no mistake about this each of "approved certifying bodies" that has been accepted by Costco must pay a on-going fee to be listed by Costco as approved and are then advertised to the potential food supplier.

 

Years ago I inspected food stores and finally learned from a store manager how a supermarket actually makes so much money - he said "Oh, heck Glenn, we don't make money from selling food - WE MAKE MONEY IN END CAP AND PLACEMENT FEES from the suppliers.

 

I worked as a hotel inspector for a franchise company - all the hotel owners bought everything they needed - soap, towels, carpeting, mattresses - everything from us, in fact they were required to only purchased from our approved suppliers.... with each supplier paying the franchise company fees for being approved.

[john.kukoly]

SQF does have the most sites in North America, followed closely by BRCGS, then further down by FSSC. The good thing, is that all three have public directories where you can search for certified sites - giving you the ability to look at actual numbers for each program. You do have to be a little selective, adding farms to SQF and FSSC gives higher numbers, as does adding in logistics and packaging sites for BRCGS. 

 

One good recommendation for the situation - look on all three websites, search using the scope for companies producing similar products - and get in touch - get the user point of view, good and challenging points for each. Some may be a little leery to talk to their competition, but in many cases, the idea that food safety is non-competitive is actually a valid truth. 

 

In the end, it's less about which standard you choose, more about how seriously you own and run your program. Similar to going to university, what you come out with is far more dependent on the dedication and effort from you, than which name is on the campus. 

[AJL]

Might seem like a silly question, but how does it work if you have a double audit for BRC and IFS, how much do you end up paying?
Is it a similar fee for just one alone, double the cost or somewhere in between?
How much more work is a double audit? From what I can see, one if the biggest differences is how they number their sections, and the scoring.

If you are at a high standard anyway, surely you can easily be passed for both.

[thisusernameisnottaken]

I work for a tea/herbal company in North America as the compliance manager & supplier auditor - our company was SQF but changed to BRC for customer reasons about 6 years ago. I've experience with most of the GFSI recognized schemes either auditing against them, or establishing QMS to meet a certain scheme. SQF is more popular in NA, and in my opinion much easier to set up initially. BRC is more difficult to set up but maintaining it seems to be easier. 

[AJL]

Anyone that can tell me if it ends up costing a lot more to do a double certification?

Edited by AJL, 08 February 2022 - 07:22 PM.

[pHruit]

Anyone that can tell me if it ends up costing a lot more to do a double certification?

In terms of the audit cost?

You'll potentially save a bit on the auditor expenses part of the bill if you pick standards that can be audited simultaneously and a cert body that can do both standards and that has auditors approved for the right scope(s) under both of the standards. I've not done it myself, but I know a few that have done e.g. IFS and BRC together in one large audit. You still pay the full certification fees for each, but you'd potentially only pay for one set of auditor time/expenses.

Probably worth talking through with your certification body and a few alternatives to get some idea of the actual figures involved.

[AJL]

Thanks pHruit, can't work out how to reply directly to your answer. Sure I'll work it out haha. 

Yes our certifying body can certify for both, so we could just do one auditor that covers BRC and IFS together. Was just wondering if there was some kind of idea about how much extra ... 20%? 30% it would cost to do double. 

[Charles.C]

Thanks pHruit, can't work out how to reply directly to your answer. Sure I'll work it out haha. 

Yes our certifying body can certify for both, so we could just do one auditor that covers BRC and IFS together. Was just wondering if there was some kind of idea about how much extra ... 20%? 30% it would cost to do double. 

Hi AJL,

 

A few random estimates do exist in earlier threads but might take some locating.

 

In view of possible factors involved,  pH's last line is probably the quickest, reliable,  route.