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Foodsafetyperson

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 06:43 PM

Hi all, I am currently a supervisor but I am doing Manager tasks. Should I say something to HR or Management? I am not the only one that has noticed this several of my coworkers have said why don't I ask to be the QA manager since I am already doing the job. I manage our SQF system, point of contact for all inspection including regulatory, purchase equipment, hire/fire employees. Purchase necessary items. And all other tasks that a manager normally does.... What should I do? Does anyone have any experience dealing with this?



Charles.C

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 08:20 PM

Hi All,

I am currently a supervisor but I am doing Manager tasks. Should I say something to HR or Management? I am not the only one that has noticed this several of my coworkers have said why don't I ask to be the QA manager since I am already doing the job.

I manage our SQF system, point of contact for all inspection including regulatory, purchase equipment, hire/fire employees. Purchase necessary items. And all other tasks that a manager normally does....

What should I do? Does anyone have any experience dealing with this?

 

Hi FSP,

 

How big a Company ? Product ? Process ?

 

Is the QA Manager position vacant then ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Foodsafetyperson

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 08:28 PM

There is no QA Manager... I work for a medium size company that wholesales produce.



Charles.C

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 08:34 PM

There is no QA Manager... I work for a medium size company that wholesales produce.

 

Hi FSP,

 

Do you mean this is a Storage/Distribution unit ?

 

Are there job descriptions for Supervisor and QA Manager ?

 

Who is the SQF Practitioner ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 05 July 2021 - 02:01 PM

I'd be asking for a raise/salary increase

 

If you're the SQF practitioner +++++, you're a manager not a supervisor


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


TimG

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Posted 06 July 2021 - 01:04 PM

Good morning Foodsafety. The sad fact is, there is generally not an easy promotion track with most companies and they tend to pile the responsibility on you until you say enough. It makes you more marketable, and is probably how many of us first learned our trades.

Having held director positions over other managers, I can say there is a real possibility that your management isn't doing this to spite you. It's kind of our jobs to get the most out of employees and other managers, pushing them to be their best and then rewarding/advancing them for it. Sometimes we lag on the reward/advancement part.

My suggestions:

  • pull your original job description to get a baseline
  • put down some bullet points of responsibilities you handle now that weren't in your original job description
    • possibly compare this to job descriptions that you are looking to be moved up to and jot those in the list under their own subheading. (that's probably overkill, I tend toward overkill...)
  • make an appointment and take this to your manager to respectfully discuss it 


Njaquino

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Posted 07 July 2021 - 06:15 PM

This very same thing happened to me when I started out in the industry. I was the SQF practioner + supervisor. Same duties as you.

 

I kept pushing to be promoted to be a QA Manager since that's what I was doing but they kept delaying. I presented job description of what a QA Manager did and my current task. I also presented the pay I deserved lol. I talked to my manager and reviewed it with him nicely. I think because I was so young, I wasn't taken seriously... I did not have the "experience to be a manager" needless to say I left after a couple of months for a QA Manager title & pay. Once I received this offer they tried to counter with the title and pay. At that point it was such a sour taste in my mouth that it wasn't worth it to me to stay around.

 

I later talked to someone from HR who no longer works there and she told me it was a pretty common practice at the company I was at. They try to keep you as a supervisor to avoid paying the manager price tag. They called us unicorns, people who can get the job done for the low price tag. It gave me great experience for my next opportunity though :).  



SQFconsultant

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 03:38 PM

First thing I would do is review your employment agreement/contract - if they put anything in there about  how they can  call upon you to handle tasks outside of your main tasks or simply add stuff on you have no recourse.

 

Still, if you are the point person for the SQF program as the SQF Practitioner you know that SQF requires a person in a responsible position, full time, etc. -- I'd be asking the title and raise as well.


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Foodsafetyperson

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 04:05 AM

This was much tougher than any surprise regulatory inspection... I finally felt comfortable enough to set up a meeting with HR and asked if we could reevaluate my job title.

Their response was "Why? Your tasks aren't good enough for a supervisor? I'll let you know that managers are able to maintain their department teams. Theres really no need to discuss this as you haven't produced exceptional results."

I've never been belittled, demoralized or made to feel insignificant as I did in that moment.

I've just hit my one year anniversary and during that time I've passed a GMP 94%,GDP 90%,FSVP,SQF edv9 food manufacturing 89%,SQF ed 9 storage and distribution 95%, Non GMO cert.,Gluten free and implemented our in-house indicator organism micro lab saving the company thousands of dollars.

The company I work for has several facilities (subsidiaries) (tax purposes). I've had to make several haccp plans that were never created and had the added fun task of converting them to HARPC (easier for Me to create a haccp.) Granted my department is constantly changing but employees leave for higher pay. HR told me I could try and make a list of what I think are accomplishments and she will consider whether to present it to management.

I've been working my ass off for months for my hard work and results I thought the company acknowledged only to be told this. Is my HR just bad at her job or is it safe to assume management believes this. I already started looking for another job... sucks because I thought I was valued and appreciated.



Marloes

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 08:48 AM

It is understandable that the conservation was dishearting. 

Have you been able to discuss what kind of results/skill they were looking for?
Perhaps they can enroll you in training program to get you the skills that are needed to excel in this QA managers position.

 

Although you don't have the title that you want now, you can use this job experience to get it later.
Don't jump ship to get into another similar shitty situation, but work towards finding the type of company you want to work for long term.
Having working experience at this company for 2/3 years can be of great help to land you the job you want in the future.
But off course, don't do anything that can hurt you mentally/emotionally. If you truly are unhappy here, by all means go look for another job.



TimG

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 02:57 PM

Ahh yeah, the old 'you are barely doing an acceptable job, be happy you still have one' type of response.

So here's the deal with that, at times it can be used knee jerk to shoot down advancement (title/pay) across the board. Being in management, I've seen companies with that approach and even had owners say things like "if X puts in his notice we'll look at it again." It had nothing to do with their performance, it was simply an old school way to clip wings; it was all a numbers game.

But there are times where it's 100% true and company expectations are barely being met while the employee feels he is constantly going above and beyond (just dealt with a situation here where this was the case).

It's going to be hard for you to disassociate yourself from this emotionally (actually impossible to do it 100%, as it could be considered a societal norm to excel you'd have to be borderline sociopathic to hit 100% disassociation). 

 

Have they ever expressed to you what they consider "exceptional results?"



kingstudruler1

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 04:35 PM

Sorry I didn't see this post earlier.  Do you report to Human Resources?  It seems like your direct supervisor or person in charge of the operations of the facility would have been a better route.  

 

 

there really is only two reasons not to promote someone

1.  The company doesn't have or is not willing to spend the resources  (which i'm guessing its more about pay than title)   

2.  They truly believe you are not ready to be a manager.    

they may or may not be honest about these.   

 

none of us are there to give an educated answer as to whether or not you should be a manager.    I will say that being able to  boxes of things that a manager might do,  doesn't necessarily make you a manager or a leader.   Most companies that are looking to hire managers would be looking for more than one year of experience.   


eb2fee_785dceddab034fa1a30dd80c7e21f1d7~


MDaleDDF

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 05:20 PM

I'll nibble...

I'm a manager.   I feel 'valued and appreciated' as you say, but also replaceable.   But hey, so are they.   My boss and I understand we're both replaceable, and that kind of takes away the Mexican standoff thing between us.  

I will say this:  No manager here has ever been here inside a year, or even close.   A manager in my facility has to understand much more than their job, they have to see the big picture.   I'm not saying you don't, but that short amount of time may be part of their issue.

I do feel your HR or company higher ups are 'unicorning' you, just like the post above says.   Why pay you more when you'll continue to do it at this price?   I've been through that as well other places, and unfortunately the only way out of that, is to quit.   They'll probably come asking to meet your new job numbers, etc, but if it were me?   I'd walk.    My wife just went through this very thing, and just yesterday got a new job making wayyyy more, and she was only out of work 3 weeks.   And the old job has been begging for her back since the day she left.    Sometimes all they understand is the sound of footsteps....

Good luck whatever path you choose!



Ronan Murphy

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Posted 25 August 2021 - 08:58 AM

This was much tougher than any surprise regulatory inspection... I finally felt comfortable enough to set up a meeting with HR and asked if we could reevaluate my job title.

Their response was "Why? Your tasks aren't good enough for a supervisor? I'll let you know that managers are able to maintain their department teams. Theres really no need to discuss this as you haven't produced exceptional results."

I've never been belittled, demoralized or made to feel insignificant as I did in that moment.

I've just hit my one year anniversary and during that time I've passed a GMP 94%,GDP 90%,FSVP,SQF edv9 food manufacturing 89%,SQF ed 9 storage and distribution 95%, Non GMO cert.,Gluten free and implemented our in-house indicator organism micro lab saving the company thousands of dollars.

The company I work for has several facilities (subsidiaries) (tax purposes). I've had to make several haccp plans that were never created and had the added fun task of converting them to HARPC (easier for Me to create a haccp.) Granted my department is constantly changing but employees leave for higher pay. HR told me I could try and make a list of what I think are accomplishments and she will consider whether to present it to management.

I've been working my ass off for months for my hard work and results I thought the company acknowledged only to be told this. Is my HR just bad at her job or is it safe to assume management believes this. I already started looking for another job... sucks because I thought I was valued and appreciated.

Hello,

 

First post on these forums but I've lurked for over 2 years. 

 

I had my first experience as a manager when I lived in the US ( currently back home in Ireland in a Quality Compliance Manager position). Similar to you I was a QA Systems Coordinator and did more work than the manager at the time. Once this was realized the manager was let go and I took their place ( unofficially). I brought us from a BB to a AA in our BRC audit and then began the process of getting the manager title + wage.  

 

I had the same talk that you did with my management at the time. They ,initially ,reacted the same way your management did. When I brought my job description to HR and stated I would not perform anything outside my remit everything changed. They paid for my refresher HACCP Manager and PCQI training and brought me up to a higher wage + title.

 

When it comes to a company the culture is everything. If even HR are afraid to fight for that culture then it may be time to go out and get what you're worth. Use your annual leave and paid sick days to go for interviews and get the wage and title you deserve. 

 

Your experience level appears to be exactly what is required in the management position. Its their loss if they recognize this but won't compensate you correctly for it. 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Ronan 



FoodSafetyAPP

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Posted 25 August 2021 - 11:23 AM

I so feel for you. 

 

I had a 'QC' role at my previous place. I had a qc employee that I managed. We had a technical manager that did no quality or technical work, he just had the title. I did everything, and I mean everything. I went above and beyond what any actual Manager in my position would have, I had been there 4 years and had good relationships with the staff, management, suppliers and customers. I knew the place, procedures, systems inside out. 

 

I was only offered a raise when I said I had an interview. I stayed, a year later asked for a raise, it was shot down. Yes I was frustrated but it was probably a good thing as it motivated me to work my butt off for myself, to get what I could out of the role, so I could be the best I could be so I had the confidence to move onto a better role. 4 years at that site and then I accepted a job offer 10 minutes away from home, more money, less hours and these people do not make me feel replaceable. They depend on me to do my job and its great to feel appreciated and valued. 

 

I even went back to the old site and completed their BRCGS unannounced audit as they had no staff in and I got the best grade they've ever had. I did that for myself - not for them. 

 

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and accept it, and work for yourself and not for the company or money. This was the best thing I did, and still do. You can get frustrated about titles and money but as long as your still learning and growing in your role you are bettering yourself for your next step. Your time will come where you find a company that values and cares. 



MDaleDDF

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Posted 25 August 2021 - 01:18 PM

I so feel for you. 

 

I had a 'QC' role at my previous place. I had a qc employee that I managed. We had a technical manager that did no quality or technical work, he just had the title. I did everything, and I mean everything. I went above and beyond what any actual Manager in my position would have, I had been there 4 years and had good relationships with the staff, management, suppliers and customers. I knew the place, procedures, systems inside out. 

 

I was only offered a raise when I said I had an interview. I stayed, a year later asked for a raise, it was shot down. Yes I was frustrated but it was probably a good thing as it motivated me to work my butt off for myself, to get what I could out of the role, so I could be the best I could be so I had the confidence to move onto a better role. 4 years at that site and then I accepted a job offer 10 minutes away from home, more money, less hours and these people do not make me feel replaceable. They depend on me to do my job and its great to feel appreciated and valued. 

 

I even went back to the old site and completed their BRCGS unannounced audit as they had no staff in and I got the best grade they've ever had. I did that for myself - not for them. 

 

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and accept it, and work for yourself and not for the company or money. This was the best thing I did, and still do. You can get frustrated about titles and money but as long as your still learning and growing in your role you are bettering yourself for your next step. Your time will come where you find a company that values and cares. 

Revenge is a dish best served cold, eh?  N-oyce!






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