14 replies to this topic

[Dralex]

Hi 

 

My company are selling prepacked fish goujons in Ireland. The goujons are fully cooked in rapeseed oil before cooling then packaging

My question is....does the rapeseed oil have to be declared as an ingredient on the label OR is it considered as a process aid and can be omitted from the label?

 

Thanks in Advance

[Scampi]

It is an ingredient.

 

From a products available in Ireland for reference

 

Ingredients

Alaska Pollock (Fish) (56%), Breadcrumb Coating*, Rapeseed Oil, *Breadcrumb Coating (Wheat Flour, Water, Salt, Wheat Starch, Yeast, Mustard, Dextrose, Sugar, Paprika, Turmeric Extract, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin),

Ingredients

Cod (Fish) (52%), Wheat Flour, Rapeseed Oil, Water, Salt, Maize Flour, Yeast, Dextrose, Wheat Starch, Sugar, Palm Oil, Raising Agents (Sodium Bicarbonate, Calcium Phosphate), Wheat Gluten, Modified Wheat Starch, Sunflower Oil, Glucose Syrup, Milk Proteins.

 

[olenazh]

Not sure what your country regulation says, but I would include rapeseed in the ingredient list: wouldn't hurt. We have customers who requested us to include "May contain" sub-ingredients in finished product "May contain" statement - even though, those were traces of traces

[MDaleDDF]

I'm not in the finished goods end of things, but how would one decide where it goes in the listing?   Would you weight coated fish,then fry and reweigh or something like that?

[olenazh]

I'm not in the finished goods end of things, but how would one decide where it goes in the listing?   Would you weight coated fish,then fry and reweigh or something like that?

I think it will obviously go to the end of ingredient listing as frying oil cannot weigh more than a fish, eh?

[Dralex]

I'm not in the finished goods end of things, but how would one decide where it goes in the listing?   Would you weight coated fish,then fry and reweigh or something like that?

I'd be very interested in the answer to this also

[Dralex]

I think it will obviously go to the end of ingredient listing as frying oil cannot weigh more than a fish, eh?

Not necessarily. The coating of breadcrumbs are seasoned with salt, pepper and spices at quite low levels, possibly less than any 'absorbed' frying oil

[Dralex]

 

It is an ingredient.

 

From a products available in Ireland for reference

 

Ingredients

Alaska Pollock (Fish) (56%), Breadcrumb Coating*, Rapeseed Oil, *Breadcrumb Coating (Wheat Flour, Water, Salt, Wheat Starch, Yeast, Mustard, Dextrose, Sugar, Paprika, Turmeric Extract, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin),

Ingredients

Cod (Fish) (52%), Wheat Flour, Rapeseed Oil, Water, Salt, Maize Flour, Yeast, Dextrose, Wheat Starch, Sugar, Palm Oil, Raising Agents (Sodium Bicarbonate, Calcium Phosphate), Wheat Gluten, Modified Wheat Starch, Sunflower Oil, Glucose Syrup, Milk Proteins.

 

 

Thanks for the answer, much appreciated!

 

Leads to another question though I'm afraid.........we also cook vegetables (steam oven) for ready to cook meals (e.g. mash potato) - should water then be declared as an ingredient?

[pHruit]

Ingredient list order is normally descending order of quantity at the preparation stage, but you'll need to take the oil gain into account in calculating the QUID figure that I'd assume you're obliged to give for the fish component of the goujon: https://www.fsai.ie/faq/quid.html

 

You could potentially do before/after weights, and assume that the weight change is entirely due to the oil pickup during frying, but that assumes there is no moisture loss (as that would reduce the apparent amount of oil pickup).

[pHruit]

Thanks for the answer, much appreciated!

 

Leads to another question though I'm afraid.........we also cook vegetables (steam oven) for ready to cook meals (e.g. mash potato) - should water then be declared as an ingredient?

Are the vegetables actually acquiring moisture from the process?
Arguably the steam is simply conveying the thermal energy to cook the product (whereas oil affects texture, taste, nutritionals), so it'd be analogous to e.g. declaring photons as an ingredient in a product you heated in a microwave, which isn't something I've ever seen before

 

Always worth checking what the big retailers are doing with similar products, as you can generally rely on them having had a big team of regulatory people go over things. FWIW I can't readily see any cooked veg examples where the water is declared as an ingredient.

[Scampi]

Water is not an ingredient, the veg to not "take up" water during the process the steam is used to reduce moisture loss that you would see in say roasting

 

 

I will add re: the oil-par fry products actually take up an incredible amount of oil compared to fully cooked product,  

 

Throw some in the oven at home, see what ends up on the baking tray

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/22260106/

 

https://www.research...rfried_Potatoes

[Dralex]

Are the vegetables actually acquiring moisture from the process?
Arguably the steam is simply conveying the thermal energy to cook the product (whereas oil affects texture, taste, nutritionals), so it'd be analogous to e.g. declaring photons as an ingredient in a product you heated in a microwave, which isn't something I've ever seen before

 

Always worth checking what the big retailers are doing with similar products, as you can generally rely on them having had a big team of regulatory people go over things. FWIW I can't readily see any cooked veg examples where the water is declared as an ingredient.

Maybe potato/veg wasn't the best example (although I'm fairly certain that they would take up some of the water)

A clearer example would be rice or Cous Cous (both of which we use) - these very clearly take up water, so, the water should be declared something like this?

 

"fish(60%), cooked basmati rice (30%){basmati rice, water, salt}, soy sauce......................etc

[pHruit]

Maybe potato/veg wasn't the best example (although I'm fairly certain that they would take up some of the water)

A clearer example would be rice or Cous Cous (both of which we use) - these very clearly take up water, so, the water should be declared something like this?

 

"fish(60%), cooked basmati rice (30%){basmati rice, water, salt}, soy sauce......................etc

In this case you're not really adding anything to the rice, but rather you're rehydrating it to replace the water lost in drying and processing. The QUID guidance I linked sort of covers this, in terms of declaration being for the weight "before dehydration".

Broadly the implication is that you're unlikely to need to declare the water component (unless you're intentionally making exceptionally and unnaturally soggy rice ).

Personally I'd declare as something like: Steamed basmati rice (basmati rice, salt)

[MDaleDDF]

I had to open my big mouth.   Aaaaaa-gain!

[olenazh]

I had to open my big mouth.   Aaaaaa-gain!

No, you just make people look at the problem from different angle, and start more interesting and intense conversation! You are a trigger;)