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Does the critical limit have to be measurable?


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alyakbarbintang

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Posted 30 August 2022 - 09:40 AM

Is it possible if we applied Critical Limit that can't be measureable?

 

Just an example in metal packaging manufacture case, there was welding process that where only tested (destructive test) it but don't measure it. 

If in case, if welding current can be set as Critical Limit, it can't guarantee the result of welding process are good.

 

FYI:

- Applied FSSC 22000 v5.1

- Welding process is CCP

- Metal Food Packaging

 

we need your advice to solve the problem.

 

Thankyou.



Marloes

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Posted 30 August 2022 - 10:27 AM

Hi,

 

Can you give a bit more information on your process?

In general a CCP is defined as a control measure which can be applied to reduce or eliminate a hazard until an acceptable measure.
You should be able to quantify your control step. So you should be able to clearly measure whether or not your CCP is in control.



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G M

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Posted 30 August 2022 - 02:16 PM

Is it possible [to have a] Critical Limit that can't be measureable?

 

 

Not really.  That is the nature of a "limit".  You might be looking at the wrong part of the process as the critical limit though.  

 

Your testing process has a limit, under a defined set of testing parameters structural or seal failure of the container is unacceptable.  Failure is the limit under those parameters, and it can be measured a variety of ways.

 

That's no different in principle than foreign material detection as a critical limit, where a set of parameters results in either a pass or fail for a lot/batch of material when a test piece is passed through for verification periodically.



Setanta

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Posted 30 August 2022 - 02:40 PM

It does have to be measurable.


-Setanta         

 

 

 


alyakbarbintang

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Posted 31 August 2022 - 09:04 AM

Herewith I will briefly explain about our manufacturing process.

 

We manufacture the metal food packaging (cans) which generally processed with following stages: cutting - coating - printing - top coating - can making. During the can making process, there are several subprocess namely slitting - body making (welding) - side seam stripping - body forming - seaming. In this body making/welding process should be classified as Critical Point because when found a not proper welding could lead to the packaging leakage that promotes bacterial spoilage to damage the content (food). But in our internal QC, this welding process is controlled and monitored using the inspection that categorized as qualitative data (between yes/no) and can not be quantified. 

 

Our main question is, based on the above explanation and our internal condition it is clear enough to categorize the welding process as our CCP? Or we have to move this hazard under OPRP control because the critical limit is not measurable (can't be quantified).

 

Need your advice.

Thanks

Not really.  That is the nature of a "limit".  You might be looking at the wrong part of the process as the critical limit though.  

 

Your testing process has a limit, under a defined set of testing parameters structural or seal failure of the container is unacceptable.  Failure is the limit under those parameters, and it can be measured a variety of ways.

 

That's no different in principle than foreign material detection as a critical limit, where a set of parameters results in either a pass or fail for a lot/batch of material when a test piece is passed through for verification periodically.



Charles.C

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Posted 31 August 2022 - 09:58 AM

Is it possible if we applied Critical Limit that can't be measureable?

 

Just an example in metal packaging manufacture case, there was welding process that where only tested (destructive test) it but don't measure it. 

If in case, if welding current can be set as Critical Limit, it can't guarantee the result of welding process are good.

 

FYI:

- Applied FSSC 22000 v5.1

- Welding process is CCP

- Metal Food Packaging

 

we need your advice to solve the problem.

 

Thankyou.

Hi abb,

 

I think you probably need to review the iso22000:2018 Standard. The latter IIRC specifically answers yr ^^^^ CCP query..

= NO. (Used [2005] to be IIRC YES).

 

I suggest you also need to risk assess whether yr hazards are Significant.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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