17 replies to this topic

[PropTech]

How many days a year does your site spend on internal audits?

In the last 12 months I have endured approximately 32 days of Internal Audits...

[SHQuality]

An internal audit is a snapshot of the moment the audit was done.

You are supposed to split your internal audit over at least 2 different dates throughout the year, but more is typically better.

 

I'm interested to know how you managed to be involved in 32 days of internal audits in a single year. Even if I was to perform all the internal audits in the company I work for, and do each of them on a separate day, I'd be auditing less than 2 weeks.

 

It's also recommended that the person doing the audit is regularly rotated so each audit has a new set of eyes that sees new things that might be improved.

How large is your internal audit team?

[PropTech]

Hi,

These audits are mostly carried out by one individual. Essentially each applicable section of the BRCGS standard has been split down into an individual audit (a few have been bundled into one) resulting in 39 audits in our schedule with each taking a day to complete. 

I appreciate everyone's situations are different but was interested to see how much time was spent on this in other business for comparison. Although there are positives from having a thorough internal audit program my experience is that our program does not generate enough insight/benefit to justify the huge time commitment. 

[Scampi]

My internal audit (aka reassessment) takes the course of the full year to do, and total time spend is probably not more than 2 weeks (this year)

 

The first year at current post probably took a total of 3 months time----new equipment, new haccp plan, plus the plan was a disaster to begin with

 

Now that it is (mostly) a paperwork exercise, it's down significantly.

 

 

IMHO they should be quick------if you've got big problems, a CAPA should have triggered an IA to happen at the time and changes made then.

Edited by Scampi, 08 February 2023 - 01:57 PM.

[SHQuality]

Hi,

These audits are mostly carried out by one individual. Essentially each applicable section of the BRCGS standard has been split down into an individual audit (a few have been bundled into one) resulting in 39 audits in our schedule with each taking a day to complete. 

I appreciate everyone's situations are different but was interested to see how much time was spent on this in other business for comparison. Although there are positives from having a thorough internal audit program my experience is that our program does not generate enough insight/benefit to justify the huge time commitment. 

 

Well, my situation is relatively easy, because I'm in a trading company and don't have to do an internal audit on machinery and things like that, but if these audits are mostly carried out by one person in your company, it's probably time to expand the auditing team so not everything falls on the same people. More people in the team also increases the insight and benefits you get from the internal audits.

[Sayed M Naim Khalid]

Hello, 

 

It all depends on the following: 

- size of the company

- diversity of products

- Number of the processes 

- size/quality of documents to be reviewed 

- GFSI standard your company has

- Quality of documentation (updated, on time, CARs are complete, deviation corrected) 

 

Normally, it takes 1.5 to 3 days for an average company. 

 

However, you also need to factor the time for preparation. Mainly your company has to be ready for the internal audit. Your documents should be ready. This may take between a week to two because you are going to get documents from variety of sources which may take longer. 

Edited by Sayed M Naim Khalid, 08 February 2023 - 02:57 PM.

[Brothbro]

My internal auditing is split up into sections of the code, and each section is audited during a 45-day window. In this way we do an internal audit against all sections of the relevant CFRs annually. But splitting it up makes it both easier to manage and more thorough because you aren't getting burnt out by reviewing the entire code at once. The total time spent on it is probably 1-2 weeks in the entire year.

[G M]

5-10x the amount of time the actual GFSI audit will take seems like a lot.  Perhaps you're including a lot of review or reassessment in your definition of 'audit'?

 

We're under a different GFSI scheme, but our internal audit usually takes about the same amount of time as the one conducted by the CB. 2-3 days.  It is typically conducted by someone from one of the companies other facilities.  Double that if you want to include the official annual review and reassessment I do.

[Tony-C]

An internal audit is a snapshot of the moment the audit was done.

You are supposed to split your internal audit over at least 2 different dates throughout the year, but more is typically better.

 

That is wrong SHQuality, this is a BRCGS Food Safety topic and it should be at least four different audit dates.

 

BRCGS Global Standard for Food Safety Issue 9 3.4 Internal Audits Clause 3.4.1:

There shall be a scheduled programme of internal audits. At a minimum, the programme shall include at least four different audit dates spread throughout the year.

 

I presume that you quoted 2 times a year from the BRCGS Global Standard for Agents and Brokers Issue 3 Clause 3.5.1:

There shall be a scheduled programme of internal audits. As a minimum, the programme shall include at least two different audit dates spread throughout the year.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[Tony-C]

How many days a year does your site spend on internal audits?

In the last 12 months I have endured approximately 32 days of Internal Audits...

 

Hi PropTech,

 

It sounds like you are asking from a department perspective, how many times should you expect to have an internal audit conducted on your department?

 

BRCGS Requirement: All activities that form a part of the site’s food safety and quality systems, including those relevant to food safety, authenticity, legality and quality, shall be covered at least once each year.

 

If your activities are regarding as high-risk then you will be subject to more audits. Typically, an audit every 3 months or more frequent is common for high-risk areas. The issue may be that the internal audits are being broken down that rather than by department covering the whole of the BRCGS Standard, the internal audits are being conducted in parts by area of the standard, in which case you will be audited more frequently but the audit should be shorter.

 

Also note, Clause 3.4.4: In addition to the internal audit programme, there shall be a separate programme of documented inspections to ensure that the factory environment and processing equipment are maintained in a suitable condition for food production.

 

So, you will be likely to have both internal audits and inspections. Inspections are also carried out at a frequency based on risk and no less than once a month in open product areas.

 

Despite the above 32 days does sound excessive.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[SHQuality]

That is wrong SHQuality, this is a BRCGS Food Safety topic and it should be at least four different audit dates.

 

BRCGS Global Standard for Food Safety Issue 9 3.4 Internal Audits Clause 3.4.1:

There shall be a scheduled programme of internal audits. At a minimum, the programme shall include at least four different audit dates spread throughout the year.

 

I presume that you quoted 2 times a year from the BRCGS Global Standard for Agents and Brokers Issue 3 Clause 3.5.1:

There shall be a scheduled programme of internal audits. As a minimum, the programme shall include at least two different audit dates spread throughout the year.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

 

Thanks for pointing this out, Tony. 

Yes, I was referring to the Agents and Brokers Standard.

[MDaleDDF]

man, glad I'm not working at that plant!   32 days is nuts to me.

Ours is 2 days.

 

Just finished our actual audit yesterday, same, two days.   Only one OFI write up, my team was the most on point they've ever been.   Auditor was looking hard at everything, and said "I literally couldn't find anything to write you up for, and I tried.   Good job." so that was pretty cool.

Cocktails on me tonight if anyone is in Mi.   PM me for the name of the joint......lol.

[AJL]

Mdale 2 days? Don't you need 4 days to meet the requirements? At least BRC requires 4 audit dates.

[SHQuality]

Mdale 2 days? Don't you need 4 days to meet the requirements? At least BRC requires 4 audit dates.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but 2 days is the requirement for the Agents and Brokers Standard (version 3).

The requirement you refer to is the BRC Standard for Manufacturers.

[MDaleDDF]

Mdale 2 days? Don't you need 4 days to meet the requirements? At least BRC requires 4 audit dates.

Nope.  Or if I do they ain't a wrote me up yet!   Lol.

Edited by MDaleDDF, 13 February 2023 - 01:36 PM.

[Tony-C]

man, glad I'm not working at that plant!   32 days is nuts to me.

Ours is 2 days.

 

Just finished our actual audit yesterday, same, two days.   Only one OFI write up, my team was the most on point they've ever been.   Auditor was looking hard at everything, and said "I literally couldn't find anything to write you up for, and I tried.   Good job." so that was pretty cool.

Cocktails on me tonight if anyone is in Mi.   PM me for the name of the joint......lol.

 

Hi MDaleDDF,

 

4 days is being mentioned because of BRCGS Food Standard requirements for the internal audit programme to include at least four different audit dates throughout the year as per my post #9.

 

I assume that your 2 days was for a certification audit?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 14 February 2023 - 05:18 AM.

[PropTech]

Thank you all for your input. 

[MDaleDDF]

Hi MDaleDDF,

 

4 days is being mentioned because of BRCGS Food Standard requirements for the internal audit programme to include at least four different audit dates throughout the year as per my post #9.

 

I assume that your 2 days was for a certification audit?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

yeah, next year will be 2.5-3.   However, my plant is small, low risk, and auditors seriously have a difficult time filling up the entire time every year regardless.  We've also been doing it a really long time,and were one of the first 500 or 1000 FSSC cert'd plants on earth?  Something like that.   Anyway, our stuff is buttoned up pretty tight by now obviously.  So the audits go insanely smooth normally.   Auditors love coming to our place, and hate it because they have to find something to write up.   Which I always find hilarious.   Like the professors from college that on day one would say "Nobody in here will get an A, I don't care how hard you work".   I always thought that was bs..... and it's the same with audits.   Oh well.....