29 replies to this topic

[jokeywap23]

Anyone else still struggling to get access to Neogen/3M's ATP and Allergan kits? 

Edited by kzeng0408, 03 April 2024 - 05:29 PM.

[Brothbro]

I too am having troubles with 3M/neogen...but for supplying Salmonella testing supplies...Hang in there!

[Scampi]

YES!!!!!!!!! ATP swabs are a nightmare to get right now

[Setanta]

UGH I had this at the beginning of the year.

I thought it would be fixed by now. Maybe I should place my next order, just in case. 

[GMO]

Genuine question... What value do you place in the ATP swabs? Is it worth the cost?

[MDaleDDF]

Does Hygenia make anything you guys could switch to?

[Scampi]

Genuine question... What value do you place in the ATP swabs? Is it worth the cost?

 

 

Depends on your specific process

 

We use them weekly where I am currently as verification of sanitation activities  (the graph is a great help) and has helped justify our 6 day/week sanitation activities

 

My previous years in slaughter, they were used as a pass/fail during pre op and there was a direct correlation between values of loss of shelf life on fresh poultry  (which makes good sense)

[G M]

UGH I had this at the beginning of the year.

I thought it would be fixed by now. Maybe I should place my next order, just in case. 

 

If you have the space to store it and the items aren't short shelf life, I would.

 

If COVID taught us anything about the just-in-time inventory/delivery system, when it's not "in time" it's a huge pain.

[GMO]

Depends on your specific process

 

We use them weekly where I am currently as verification of sanitation activities  (the graph is a great help) and has helped justify our 6 day/week sanitation activities

 

My previous years in slaughter, they were used as a pass/fail during pre op and there was a direct correlation between values of loss of shelf life on fresh poultry  (which makes good sense)

 

I have found them poor to be honest in correlation with micro or visual loading.  I have always maintained and have evidence for visual inspection being a great method to assess cleaning and an underappreciated one.  It of course depends on your process but considering the cost for a year can be as much as employing another Quality Assurance Technician, I'd sooner have the person when money is tight.

[foodie_come_safely]

How is the supply situation coming along for all you guys? 

[CandyMakerV]

Yes, Neogen have been delaying our allergen kit orders. As we contacted their CS, they explained they have been working on their system which I don't know if it's 100% true. Never liked 3M's ATP swabs, glad we switched to Hygiena and use Hygiena as a back up for certain allergen kits. 

[Miss Frankie]

Neogen duplicated our order and we're not even running yet.

 

Also, Amazon has ATP swabs with no shipping.

[jfrey123]

How timely this thread comes up.  We just awarded an RFP where Hygiena and NeoGen were the two leading competitors for our US based operations.  NeoGen put up some strong offerings but kept pushing their mapping and tracking software (wanting to really buddy up and get us to pay them to have all of our EMP mapped through their portal).  Hygiena came with a better offer making it a no-brainer as they're our incumbent supplier, but seems we dodged a bullet in supply chain issues had NeoGen earned the business.

[G M]

It would seem that even the Neogen labs are running out of reagents to perform 3rd party testing.  

[GMO]

I love that my challenge has been pretty much ignored.    

Seriously though...  If ATP swabs didn't exist would your plant be any more or less safe?

I once had a QA come to me and say "I swabbed the belt and the RLU result is a pass but it looks dirty!"
My response "Why did you swab it then?"

Allergen rapid swabs have a place.  Kinda.  But I have worked in plants with ATP swabbing and plants without.  If anything factories overusing ATP and not using common sense like you know, their eyes and a decent verification programme?  Probably worse.

[Scampi]

In slaughter, visually clean often doesn't correlated with RLU values, hence the pass/fail            The QC techs are the ones performing the swabbing at 4 am, so hiring another doesn't make sense and in Canada, the swabs are still less expensive than another tech-particularly in slaughter where the skill set is incredibly specialized

 

Protein is incredibly difficult to remove completely, and certainly when talking about poultry fat, has the ability to smooth out into a fine layer that you cannot see with the naked eye, so yeah, depends on the process.  Given the rates of ecoli and salmonella at slaughter, I would NEVER accept ones visual inspection

[Aartisharma98]

Does Hygenia make anything you guys could switch to?

hygiena has their luminometer but i think only accepts swabs from hygiena(size and specification). i have used both 3m and hygiena but nowdays the luminometers have touchscreens, and added features which is cool and makes things easy.

[GMO]

In slaughter, visually clean often doesn't correlated with RLU values, hence the pass/fail            The QC techs are the ones performing the swabbing at 4 am, so hiring another doesn't make sense and in Canada, the swabs are still less expensive than another tech-particularly in slaughter where the skill set is incredibly specialized

 

Protein is incredibly difficult to remove completely, and certainly when talking about poultry fat, has the ability to smooth out into a fine layer that you cannot see with the naked eye, so yeah, depends on the process.  Given the rates of ecoli and salmonella at slaughter, I would NEVER accept ones visual inspection

 

But this is my point... Does the RLU relate to ANYTHING?  Especially if you want to validate clean, when rapid protein swabs are available?

 

Also I completely dispute protein is difficult to remove completely.  We validate our cleaning processes on allergens and meat species testing.  Meat species is a piece of cake vs. allergens.  And given I'm referring to both raw and ready to reheat and ready to eat in my factories, I tell you now, we're not using ATP in much higher risk environments where there is no consumer cook or it cannot be relied on, multiple allergen, multiple species AND with a retailer that does DNA testing down to carcass level.

Genuinely... I strongly believe they're a waste of bloody time, even in the situations you're referring to.

[GMO]

If y'all really going to use these things, I'd consider moving to A3 which detects AMP, ADP and ATP BUT there is strong evidence that these things pick up ATP from dead cells as well as living ones but as AMP and ADP are part of the equilibria as well then if you're determined to use something, that would be a more accurate test.  Without it false negatives on ATP are possible as well.

 

I still don't see anyone in real life apart from people making the damn things who really love them though but perhaps that's just because I'm old and crotchety.  

[Aartisharma98]

If y'all really going to use these things, I'd consider moving to A3 which detects AMP, ADP and ATP BUT there is strong evidence that these things pick up ATP from dead cells as well as living ones but as AMP and ADP are part of the equilibria as well then if you're determined to use something, that would be a more accurate test.  Without it false negatives on ATP are possible as well.

 

I still don't see anyone in real life apart from people making the damn things who really love them though but perhaps that's just because I'm old and crotchety.  

there are swabs to test e.coli, coliform and acc it takes about 6-8 hours (no need for lab) and then you can release or hold your product based on the results

[GMO]

there are swabs to test e.coli, coliform and acc it takes about 6-8 hours (no need for lab) and then you can release or hold your product based on the results

 

Well that's an even better idea still!

[Miss Frankie]

We tested swabs one day.  Had a high reading on a scale platform.  Wiped it down with sanitizer, got a higher reading.  Got fresh sanitizer and a new roll of paper towels, even higher.  Did that THREE times and each reading was higher.  Wiped it down with bleach. 0.

 

Tried the same test on my stainless steel counter in the QC lab. 

Cleaned a spot with soap & water tested. 

Wiped same spot with sanitizer tested. 

Wiped same spot with bleach tested.
The sanitizer was the highest reading. 

[Aartisharma98]

We tested swabs one day.  Had a high reading on a scale platform.  Wiped it down with sanitizer, got a higher reading.  Got fresh sanitizer and a new roll of paper towels, even higher.  Did that THREE times and each reading was higher.  Wiped it down with bleach. 0.

 

Tried the same test on my stainless steel counter in the QC lab. 

Cleaned a spot with soap & water tested. 

Wiped same spot with sanitizer tested. 

Wiped same spot with bleach tested.
The sanitizer was the highest reading. 

maybe your sanitizer is not effective and/or is contaminated OR your machine is not calibrated and not functioning properly.

[MDaleDDF]

I've read on this site where sanitizers can cause false positives in ATP, no?   I use Protein swabs for that very reason, and have never had an issue.

[Aartisharma98]

We tested swabs one day.  Had a high reading on a scale platform.  Wiped it down with sanitizer, got a higher reading.  Got fresh sanitizer and a new roll of paper towels, even higher.  Did that THREE times and each reading was higher.  Wiped it down with bleach. 0.

 

Tried the same test on my stainless steel counter in the QC lab. 

Cleaned a spot with soap & water tested. 

Wiped same spot with sanitizer tested. 

Wiped same spot with bleach tested.
The sanitizer was the highest reading. 

The correct procedure is perform the test after cleaning but before applying a sanitizer to eliminate the effects of your sanitizer.

 

the cons of using ATP - The ATP bioluminescence will also be detected from dead bacteria - resulting in a elevated reading.

Edited by Aartisharma98, 13 May 2024 - 03:17 PM.