14 replies to this topic

[DSTechnicalManager]

Hello

 

Would anybody give me an advice ref to chilled soups? The product is fully cooked and then chilled, it's packed in bags. It must be kept chilled.

Would you say it is high care product?

[GMO]

Absolutely, or rather high risk.  There could be an argument that if it's hot filled into the packaging and cooled within the packaging, the environment of that filler is high care even if the surrounding area is not, but that's fraught with risk.  Much better and simpler to control if you are assembling into a high risk environment.  It wouldn't be high care unless you're including ingredients which have not been fully heat treated, e.g. fresh herbs added after cooking which feels unlikely. 

 

Why it's high risk?  Because your product will be high Aw and support the growth of pathogenic bacteria.

 

Let us know if you need more help and advice as while I'd recommend a high risk area either way, your controls (and risk) will increase if you're cooling then filling the bags rather than filling then cooling.  Particularly I'd make some comments on shelf life issues to watch out for in the case of the former, i.e. there will be the 10 day / botulinum risk to consider.

Edited by GMO, 10 February 2025 - 10:35 AM.

[SQFconsultant]

Yes.

[DSTechnicalManager]

Hi, thank you all.

 

Does anybody have experience in production of frozen soups ? This is something new for me and i am looking for some advice on what to watch out for etc.

Why is blast chilling so important ? 

[GMO]

Hi, thank you all.

 

Does anybody have experience in production of frozen soups ? This is something new for me and i am looking for some advice on what to watch out for etc.

Why is blast chilling so important ? 

 

Blast chilling or blast freezing?

 

Blast chilling is important to reduce the temperature to the point where most pathogenic bacteria aren't growing, as quickly as possible.  

 

Blast freezing is more about quality.  The quicker you freeze something the smaller the ice crystals.  Yes, Listeria monocytogenes growth will also be stopped by freezing but that's not really why you need to do it via a blast process.  Smaller ice crystals tend to mean you don't break down pieces within your soup.  There are also practical and life considerations that you need to know when your product was frozen so you can determine life.

[kfromNE]

Why it is important - it's a CCP or should be if you don't have it as one. If you don't take the cooling temp in the allotted time, you'll most likely have to throw away the product. 

 

Not sure how big your blast freezer is or what your process is. However, if you have a smaller blast freezer, watch how many hot soups you put into at a time. 

The blast freezer will rise in temperature by a few degrees. You must take this into account and the cooling time. 

[GMO]

When you say "bags" what kind of bags?  Is this for retail or business to business?  If it's the latter, I'd be inclined to hot fill into bags and if you can, use a capkold style cooling system to cool to fridge temperature then blast freeze.  If you blast freeze directly you will need to have lots of gaps between bags for air flow.

 

Also make sure your bags are thick enough to cope with freezing and are not overfilled so they don't burst!

[tahoeskier]

decision tree attached

 

 

Attached Files

•  Doc1.docx   147.57KB   13 downloads

Edited by tahoeskier, 17 February 2025 - 03:14 PM.

[DSTechnicalManager]

Absolutely, or rather high risk.  There could be an argument that if it's hot filled into the packaging and cooled within the packaging, the environment of that filler is high care even if the surrounding area is not, but that's fraught with risk.  Much better and simpler to control if you are assembling into a high risk environment.  It wouldn't be high care unless you're including ingredients which have not been fully heat treated, e.g. fresh herbs added after cooking which feels unlikely. 

 

Why it's high risk?  Because your product will be high Aw and support the growth of pathogenic bacteria.

 

Let us know if you need more help and advice as while I'd recommend a high risk area either way, your controls (and risk) will increase if you're cooling then filling the bags rather than filling then cooling.  Particularly I'd make some comments on shelf life issues to watch out for in the case of the former, i.e. there will be the 10 day / botulinum risk to consider.

Hi, do you have any document you could share with me for this? I am struggling to find anything to justify my decision 

[DSTechnicalManager]

Yes.

Hi

 

Do you have any documents i could use to support my justification for risk zones to our BRCGS auditor ?

[kconf]

Just the nature of your product. Soup has water. Water is ground for microorganisms. 

[Tony-C]

Hi DSTechnicalManager,

 

This feels like deja vu as I posted in a similar vein in this Risk Zoning topic yesterday.

 

Your soups are high-risk (presuming that they are regarded as open to the environment post cooking, before being sealed in the bags) as explained in the information provided below.

 

Guidance is given in the BRCGS Standard Appendix 2 Production risk zones – high risk, high care and ambient high care:

High risk (chilled and frozen)

Products which require handling in a high-risk area must meet all of the following criteria:

• The finished products require chilling or freezing during storage to preserve food safety.

• All components have received a full cook7 process to a minimum of 70°C for 2 minutes or equivalent (see Appendix 3) before entry to the area.

• The finished products are vulnerable to the growth of pathogens (e.g. Listeria species) or the survival of pathogens, which could subsequently grow during the normal storage or use of the product (e.g. if a frozen product is defrosted but not immediately consumed).

• The finished products are ready to eat, ready to heat or, on the basis of known consumer use, are likely to be eaten without adequate cooking.

 

BRCGS published a BRC Food Standard 8 Production Zone Decision Tree 1 in Issue 8 which is posted below:

 

 

Following this decision tree:

 

Step 1 Are the final products stored ambient, chilled or frozen

> chilled or frozen

Step 2 Are products or ingredients within the area open to the environment (i.e. neither packaged nor fully enclosed in tanks or pipes etc.)?

> Yes

Step 3 Does the product support the growth of pathogens or the survival of pathogens, which could subsequently grow during the normal storage or use of the product unless stored chilled or frozen?

> Yes

Step 4 Does the area contain products which. on the basis of cooking instructions and known customer use*, undergo full cooking** prior to consumption?

> No

Step 5 Have all vulnerable products received, prior to entry into the area, a heat treatment

equivalent to 70 C for 2 minutes?

> Yes

> High-risk area - for example, cooked meats, pâté, houmous, prepared meals without garnishes, dairy desserts with cooked components

 

Blast chilling is important because you want to minimise the time your soups are in the temperature 'danger zone' this will limit microbiological growth including germination of spores that may survive your cooking process and produce toxins.

 

One final point is if your product is totally enclosed then it could be argued that this is an Enclosed product area - Example products given are piped liquids (e.g. milk, fruit juice, wine) but I don't think I would be looking to make that claim unless I was very sure there was no potential for product contamination.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[Tony-C]

Hi DSTechnicalManager,

 

This feels like deja vu as I posted in a similar vein in this Risk Zoning topic yesterday.

 

Your soups are high-risk (presuming that they are regarded as open to the environment post cooking, before being sealed in the bags) as explained in the information provided below.

 

Guidance is given in the BRCGS Standard Appendix 2 Production risk zones – high risk, high care and ambient high care:

High risk (chilled and frozen)

Products which require handling in a high-risk area must meet all of the following criteria:

• The finished products require chilling or freezing during storage to preserve food safety.

• All components have received a full cook7 process to a minimum of 70°C for 2 minutes or equivalent (see Appendix 3) before entry to the area.

• The finished products are vulnerable to the growth of pathogens (e.g. Listeria species) or the survival of pathogens, which could subsequently grow during the normal storage or use of the product (e.g. if a frozen product is defrosted but not immediately consumed).

• The finished products are ready to eat, ready to heat or, on the basis of known consumer use, are likely to be eaten without adequate cooking.

 

BRCGS published a BRC Food Standard 8 Production Zone Decision Tree 1 in Issue 8 which is posted below:

 

 

Following this decision tree:

 

Step 1 Are the final products stored ambient, chilled or frozen

> chilled or frozen

Step 2 Are products or ingredients within the area open to the environment (i.e. neither packaged nor fully enclosed in tanks or pipes etc.)?

> Yes

Step 3 Does the product support the growth of pathogens or the survival of pathogens, which could subsequently grow during the normal storage or use of the product unless stored chilled or frozen?

> Yes

Step 4 Does the area contain products which. on the basis of cooking instructions and known customer use*, undergo full cooking** prior to consumption?

> No

Step 5 Have all vulnerable products received, prior to entry into the area, a heat treatment

equivalent to 70 C for 2 minutes?

> Yes

> High-risk area - for example, cooked meats, pâté, houmous, prepared meals without garnishes, dairy desserts with cooked components

 

Blast chilling is important because you want to minimise the time your soups are in the temperature 'danger zone' this will limit microbiological growth including germination of spores that may survive your cooking process and produce toxins.

 

One final point is if your product is totally enclosed then it could be argued that this is an Enclosed product area - Example products given are piped liquids (e.g. milk, fruit juice, wine) but I don't think I would be looking to make that claim unless I was very sure there was no potential for product contamination.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[DSTechnicalManager]

Hi DSTechnicalManager,

 

This feels like deja vu as I posted in a similar vein in this Risk Zoning topic yesterday.

 

Your soups are high-risk (presuming that they are regarded as open to the environment post cooking, before being sealed in the bags) as explained in the information provided below.

 

Guidance is given in the BRCGS Standard Appendix 2 Production risk zones – high risk, high care and ambient high care:

High risk (chilled and frozen)

Products which require handling in a high-risk area must meet all of the following criteria:

• The finished products require chilling or freezing during storage to preserve food safety.

• All components have received a full cook7 process to a minimum of 70°C for 2 minutes or equivalent (see Appendix 3) before entry to the area.

• The finished products are vulnerable to the growth of pathogens (e.g. Listeria species) or the survival of pathogens, which could subsequently grow during the normal storage or use of the product (e.g. if a frozen product is defrosted but not immediately consumed).

• The finished products are ready to eat, ready to heat or, on the basis of known consumer use, are likely to be eaten without adequate cooking.

 

BRCGS published a BRC Food Standard 8 Production Zone Decision Tree 1 in Issue 8 which is posted below:

 

BRC Food Standard 8 Production Zone Decision Tree 1.jpg

 

Following this decision tree:

 

Step 1 Are the final products stored ambient, chilled or frozen

> chilled or frozen

Step 2 Are products or ingredients within the area open to the environment (i.e. neither packaged nor fully enclosed in tanks or pipes etc.)?

> Yes

Step 3 Does the product support the growth of pathogens or the survival of pathogens, which could subsequently grow during the normal storage or use of the product unless stored chilled or frozen?

> Yes

Step 4 Does the area contain products which. on the basis of cooking instructions and known customer use*, undergo full cooking** prior to consumption?

> No

Step 5 Have all vulnerable products received, prior to entry into the area, a heat treatment

equivalent to 70 C for 2 minutes?

> Yes

> High-risk area - for example, cooked meats, pâté, houmous, prepared meals without garnishes, dairy desserts with cooked components

 

Blast chilling is important because you want to minimise the time your soups are in the temperature 'danger zone' this will limit microbiological growth including germination of spores that may survive your cooking process and produce toxins.

 

One final point is if your product is totally enclosed then it could be argued that this is an Enclosed product area - Example products given are piped liquids (e.g. milk, fruit juice, wine) but I don't think I would be looking to make that claim unless I was very sure there was no potential for product contamination.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

Hello

 

Thank you so much. Can you also advise how to do risk zoning? How do i divide it onto zones ? 

[Tony-C]

Hello

 

Thank you so much. Can you also advise how to do risk zoning? How do i divide it onto zones ? 

 

Hi again,

 

Have a look at the example in post 5 of the link I previously posted:

You might find this topic useful: Assessment for Production Risk Zones based on Clause 4.3.1 of BRC Issue 9

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony