32 replies to this topic

[TAW]

A few months ago, my partner and I attended a comedy show and the warm-up act was asking different people in the audience about their careers.  I mentioned to the comic that I was a Food Safety Manager for a small candy company.  And his immediate reaction was "CANDY ISN'T SAFE!!!".  My reaction was to basically respond with some form of "It may not be healthy, but it's safe."  Yet, that response got me thinking about the philosophy behind food safety.  Every food safety and quality professional out there deals with this push and pull between health and safety every single day.  

 

Ultimately I want to attempt to answer the paradox between healthy food and safe food, but I'm still at a loss as to how I feel about it.

 

Food safety is ultimately making sure the food that we as people and our pets consume is not going to kill us.  Yet, a paradox arises when we bring up certain food types like sweets.  Sweets (especially hard candy) are generally on the lower risk of food safety issues, but no one would consider hard candy a healthy food.  On the other hand, your more common foods that have higher food safety risks are farm fresh fruits and vegetables.  This category is considered one, if not, the healthiest food categories there is.  

 

What makes candy, a generally accepted unhealthy food, safe to eat?  Because it will most likely not kill you tomorrow or a week from now, but over time it can cause health issues.  

 

Personally, I feel that us in food safety are trying to prevent immediate health impacts.  Biological, chemical, physical, and possibly radiological hazards that could harm consumers in the short term.  As for the long term, it becomes personal choices and habits that affect health outcomes from food.

 

Just a nugget of thought.

[kconf]

Interesting. 

 

Everything in moderation is the key. The dose makes the difference between being safe and poisonous. The candy you call it "safe" but not unhealthy could be loaded with not only sugars but could be made with harmful synthetic dyes. Is it still safe? 

 

The same could be said about any thing. Even a farm or distributor that sells carrots could say they are safe and healthy food supplier. Now someone could argue that carrots contain heavy metals. If too much is consumed then one can get side effects of too much vitamin A. 

 

Same thing about food with allergens. There is no single food item that is good for everyone that can be consumed without consequences. Some foods are healthier and safer than others. 

[GMO]

There was a post I saw on linked on on the converse.  A sign saying "healthy breakfast options" and underneath were raw oysters.

 

Brave breakfast choice but not necessarily a safe one.

 

It did get me thinking of the overlap between healthy and safe and I came to similar conclusions the previous poster did in a way.  It's a dose dependent relationship which is acute (for safety) or chronic (for health).  

 

In the UK at least, due to the HFSS legislation, some of this is now being designed in.  So for example, salt levels have been gradually reducing, fat reducing etc.  But with sweets, an obvious "treat" food, unless you make it sugar free (which is not pleasant on a lot of peoples' bowels), it's always going to be an "unhealthy" food.

 

Should it exist is one question?  I'll leave that to the legislators but foods which have no benefit to the diet and can only harm in excess, it is a paradox and also alcohol could fall into that area.  The evidence small amounts are good are overstated.

 

When we live in a world where we're knowingly making foods which are difficult to stop eating (or drinking) and have no positive health impacts yet we call ourselves food safety people?  That is hard.  But I also believe that prohibiting these foods and drinks doesn't work.  So it comes back to legislators to restrict occasions and locations where they can be bought, use nudge to reduce purchasing habits etc.  Have maximum bag sizes.  The normal size bags of sweets nowadays just didn't exist when I was young.  Ditto crisps (chips) were only ever sold in individual portion sizes.  Multipacks weren't a thing and big "sharing" bags that nobody shares certainly weren't.  Etc etc.

 

What's interesting is the vast divergence on soft drinks globally nowadays.  We have a "sugar tax" in the UK which means any high sugar drinks are taxed at a very high level so even "full sugar" options now contain sweeteners or are reduced sugar.  There are also a lot of diet and sugar free options which are now often outselling the full sugar.  Pepsi Max here is way bigger than Pepsi for example.  Personally I think it's pretty likely that sweeteners are going to have more "scare" stories about them for high consumers over the coming years so that's not necessarily a panacea but how the standard recipes differ from the US now to the UK is eye opening.

 

But lastly it's all about palate.  I was recently with some US colleagues in a mainland European country and we were only offered water with our lunch.  Which is fine by me, I mostly drink water and that's not all that unusual in the UK.  There was no dessert offered after lunch.  Less common in the UK but I wasn't particularly bothered.  By the second day, one of the US colleagues was missing soda, chips and something sweet so much she went and bought her own.  I found that fascinating and it does suggest that some changes in some populations are going to need to be gradual to change behaviours or people will just see it and react firmly in the opposite direction.  

 

Making that kind of change though needs some coordinated action including legislation.  And FBOs are there to sell food, not to prevent someone eating sugary sweets even though they have type 2 diabetes, like my partner does.      Even though they have all the knowledge they need to know this will cause them harm.

[MDaleDDF]

Hey, at least you didn't have to tell the comic you did qa for boar's head.

And my kid would argue with hard candy not being a health food, lol.

 

All things in moderation....

[TimG]

Our views on what is 'healthy' also change quite frequently. I remember FatTim thinking he was eating healthy by enjoying that Applebees Oriental chicken salad. I mean, it says salad, right? It's got some nice greens, almonds, crunchy things. Over 1500 calories.

It's all about moderation. I could have easily been satisfied with half that salad, but there was no way I was going to let the other half go to waste.

[GMO]

Has to look up said salad...

 

Applebee's® Oriental Chicken Salad - Dine-in, Takeout, or Delivery

 

Sorry but only Americans think that's a salad...  Come on!  Deep fried chicken.  Deep fried noodles.  Garlic breadstick "brushed with garlic butter" nuts and I'm betting that's not a low oil vinaigrette?  Wowzers...  

 

Sorry Tim!  I shouldn't laugh but that's fried chicken, fried noodles and garlic bread with a few leaves as garnish!

 

[kconf]

Gotta love the description - top a bed of fresh asian greens. 

 

Good call out on Applebees - no where do they mention anything is fried. 

[TimG]

The vinaigrette really kicks it into high gear. It's tangy sugar water...

 

Extra dressing, extra breadstick, and a top shelf long island to wash it down!

[GMO]

The vinaigrette really kicks it into high gear. It's tangy sugar water...

 

Extra dressing, extra breadstick, and a top shelf long island to wash it down!

 

Sounds like Weightwatchers heaven lol...

 

To be fair I think we've all had that moment where a few salad leaves has put us in a different mindset as to the calorie content of a meal.

 

 

no where do they mention anything is fried. 

 

Yeah... but how else do you think the chicken and noodles get crispy?

[MDaleDDF]

Sorry but only Americans think that's a salad...  

Someone get the ointment, cause that was a BURRNNNNNNNN

[MDaleDDF]

The vinaigrette really kicks it into high gear. It's tangy sugar water...

 

Extra dressing, extra breadstick, and a top shelf long island to wash it down!

Jack and Coke, long islands are for college kids.

[TimG]

Jack and Coke, long islands are for college kids.

Well this was 20 years ago..so

[MDaleDDF]

Well this was 20 years ago..so

Lol, fair enough.

[Scampi]

I worked at a plant that made "cheese" for applebees

 

Do your self a favour and steer very clear

[TimG]

TAW you've been at that candy place since you left our old place. Glad it's working out for you.

I see our old place has gone through like 5 quality managers in the last 5 years at that location.

[GMO]

I suppose this is the problem.  Food which looks like it's bad for you is fair enough.  That's obvious it needs to be in moderation.  Food that is pretending to be healthy, that's kinda BS.  I hope that we do start to think of those kinds of foods as a food safety risk, because they are.

 

 

Someone get the ointment, cause that was a BURRNNNNNNNN

 

To be fair a UK pub chain once came up with this monstrosity:

 

 

Yes, that's a double burger with cheese and bacon between two doughnuts.

 

We have our own problems here and to be fair we are the sickness and obesity capital of Europe so my gentle jibe is at the sad fact the UK is pretty much as bad.

[TAW]

Yeah, its not a bad gig even though I wish the pay was better.  We are pretty small so I have my routine done and dusted now.

[GMO]

I mean there's even a Bud in the background.  I don't drink but used to and even I in my lowest moments wouldn't choose a Bud.

[TimG]

I mean there's even a Bud in the background.  I don't drink but used to and even I in my lowest moments wouldn't choose a Bud.

You guys drink your beer room temperature!

[kconf]

What's wrong with bud? Is light better than weisier? 

[GMO]

You guys drink your beer room temperature!

 

I think my advice is shelve that preconception with "all British food is bland" and "everyone sounds posh in the UK".

 

No.  Lagers have been chilled for a good 40 years.  IPAs are almost always sparkling and chilled.  Some bitters (drunk mainly by people 80+) would be "cellar temperature" but that's still not warm.  Probably about 10 degrees all year round.

 

A lot of the misconceptions of British food was brought back by GIs in the second world war.  We had rationing into the 1950s here and our food culture suffered but we also have a vibrant and integrated food scene which surprises people who come to visit.

 

I don't drink anymore but when I did, the IPAs are really worth checking out.  I appreciate the memory of them anyway.  Much more bitter and full of flavour than the lagers we have in the UK which are poor in the main part but Bud is no better.  For decent lager you need to go to central Europe where the stuff was invented.

 

The "weiser" bit for Budweiser comes from the name of the Czech town České Budějovice which was Budweis in German.  Some expats went to the US then used local ingredients to make an (IMO) inferior brew which they got away with due to the iron curtain meaning nobody was drinking the Czech original in the west.  That changed when Eastern Europe opened up and the original "Budvar" (forced to change its name by you know who) is much superior despite also being mass market.  But I was never a big lager / pilsner drinker.  Only when travelling and not able to get a decent hoppier brew.

[MDaleDDF]

Man I needed a fun thread.   You guys rule....lol.

[MDaleDDF]

I think my advice is shelve that preconception with "all British food is bland" and "everyone sounds posh in the UK".

 

No.  Lagers have been chilled for a good 40 years.  IPAs are almost always sparkling and chilled.  Some bitters (drunk mainly by people 80+) would be "cellar temperature" but that's still not warm.  Probably about 10 degrees all year round.

 

A lot of the misconceptions of British food was brought back by GIs in the second world war.  We had rationing into the 1950s here and our food culture suffered but we also have a vibrant and integrated food scene which surprises people who come to visit.

 

I don't drink anymore but when I did, the IPAs are really worth checking out.  I appreciate the memory of them anyway.  Much more bitter and full of flavour than the lagers we have in the UK which are poor in the main part but Bud is no better.  For decent lager you need to go to central Europe where the stuff was invented.

 

The "weiser" bit for Budweiser comes from the name of the Czech town České Budějovice which was Budweis in German.  Some expats went to the US then used local ingredients to make an (IMO) inferior brew which they got away with due to the iron curtain meaning nobody was drinking the Czech original in the west.  That changed when Eastern Europe opened up and the original "Budvar" (forced to change its name by you know who) is much superior despite also being mass market.  But I was never a big lager / pilsner drinker.  Only when travelling and not able to get a decent hoppier brew.

Come on now....you guys eat jellied eels......ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, lol.

My buddy and his wife are both dual citzs, she's from the UK, he lived there for 10 years.    They just went back for a long stint last year and I said what'd you guys miss most about the states.   The whole family at once:  THE FOOD.  

They will both readily admit the beer is better there tho, and I'll agree to that.   A nice Newcastle Nut Brown, or a Sammie Smith's Oatmeal Stout would be my two favorite beers.   Bud and any American light beer is undrinkable for my pallet.

And you don't need to drink, I drink enough for both of us....

[TAW]

Hey, at least you didn't have to tell the comic you did qa for boar's head. (true)

And my kid would argue with hard candy not being a health food, lol.

 

All things in moderation....

[TimG]

I might be in the minority but I'm kind of against policing food outside of the immediate (adulteration) concerns. I think giving the consumer nutritional information is about the extent of what restaurants and grocers should be required to do. If I want to eat that 2 patty donut burger, let me see how many calories it is. Ok, 3k? I'll cut my calories down a bit that week and make sure I only do it once a year (if that). But that goes back to moderation.

 

I used to do a sack of White Castles once a year just because that was about when I would forget how sick it made me feel the last time. I haven't had a sack of 10 from whiteys in about 12 years. Just talking about it now and I'm kinda craving a few.. But I also am fully aware that if I get some it will be on a Friday where I can sit and feel bloated and sick for a whole day and not miss work because of it. To me it's those little things that make life worth living (not the white castles, small spread-out splurges)!