44 replies to this topic

[kconf]

I would not think 2-3 mins of microwaving is intended to kill/reduce microorganisms. 

[GMO]

You'd be surprised. They're normally only blanched for quality purposes to retain colour not fully cooked. There have been multiple recalls of Listeria on frozen veg.

[kconf]

Then I am a culprit myself. 

What about onions? Are they safe? 

[GMO]

Chopped and frozen? Cross contact between soil and the onion itself is difficult to control in processing. Then when chopped they can be difficult to decontaminate because of the layers. Not impossible but difficult. Chopped, raw onions (not ex freeze) are often used in sandwiches in the UK but it's a sandwich I wouldn't feed to my 80 year old mother. 

 

Do me a favour. Grab a frozen bag of veg from your freezer and look at whether it explicitly gives instructions to eat without cooking or whether it tells you to cook first.

[GMO]

An example.

 

Great Value Frozen Sweet Peas 12 oz Steamable Bag, V E G E T A B L E S P E A S, No added chemicals - Walmart.com

 

Look at the front of bag "cook thoroughly". That's for a reason...

 

Same with this:

Great Value Frozen 10oz Chopped Onions, Vegetable, No Added Chemicals or Sugars - Walmart.com

 

From the American Frozen Food Institute:

 

Difference-Fruits-Veg-V5

Edited by GMO, Yesterday, 05:17 PM.

[kconf]

I meant fresh (not frozen), raw, chopped onions. They are meant to be eaten raw in salad, right? 

[KTD]

Raw onion slices are almost standard in the US on hamburgers and other meat sandwiches.

McDonald's had a large FBI outbreak a coule years back traced to raw, diced onions on their burgers.

 

Swinging back to the Lipton Onion Soup mix in sour cream - are there any cooking or food safety statements on the box or packets? I grew up on that dip...

[GMO]

Raw onions can be buggy. Care needs to be taken in prep.

[jfrey123]

Peeling and cutting vegetables at the home level is pretty commonly safe.  Consumers are removing the exterior where contaminants live and consuming before any potential exterior micro contamination can spread and fester isn't much of a concern.

 

Peeling and cutting vegetables at the commercial level is pretty nasty.  Peeling one onion for your dinner isn't very risky.  Peeling and cutting 40,000lbs of onions brings a ton of risks.  Everything my company does with cutting fresh fruits and vegetables requires a wash after cutting, as we're breaching the exterior flesh of the produce and introducing contamination to the interior edible bits.  To the McD's comment, yes, cutting onions and shipping them afterward is a huge risk that we have to account for (but we weren't the ones who processing those onions for McD's, we just do similar work for retail sale).

 

To the comparison of broccoli to leafy greens prior:  broccoli is a bit more hearty/durable and can be washed with agitation prior to releasing for consumption.  But leafy greens are notorious for harboring salmonella or listeria, and the mechanized washing of leafy greens can break and tear the leaves.  Simply put, my company does cut fruit and veg trays in 9 facilities, and we as a 

[GMO]

This conversation has wildly got off track and away from the HACCP intent. Would delete if I could.

[TimG]

This conversation has wildly got off track and away from the HACCP intent. Would delete if I could.

LOL you said wacky consumers what did you expect!?!?

I didn't even get into some of my wacky consumer complaints!

Since we're already derailed...

I had one woman tell me her honey got corrupted because it was on the shelf of a store that lost power, and she knows it was bad because the bacon/meat she ate was bad and corrupted the honey because that's how it works if it's in the same building. Oh, and she had some before bed and it sent her on a 'trip' and she was deathly ill, and then when she woke up it made her crave it and she put it in her tea, and it sent her on another trip.

I asked her "ma'am just to clarify, you say you were aware the honey was making you violently ill but then you consumed it again the next morning?" and her reply was "what!? Oh, I must be still affected! I should go to the hospital now don't you think? You have to cover that right?"

[Scampi]

Raw onion slices are almost standard in the US on hamburgers and other meat sandwiches.

McDonald's had a large FBI outbreak a coule years back traced to raw, diced onions on their burgers.

 

Swinging back to the Lipton Onion Soup mix in sour cream - are there any cooking or food safety statements on the box or packets? I grew up on that dip...

The fact that this is on their own website says something...........https://www.liptonki...egory/dips.html

[LostInTheWoods]

The fact that this is on their own website says something...........https://www.liptonki...egory/dips.html

So, in an attempt to rein in this thread, the evolution of this is interesting. Taking Onion Soup mix for example:

• Company starts producing Soup Mix, with the original intent to be added to hot (enough to kill salmonella) water.
• Maybe they don't control for salmonella, as package directions indicate an at home kill step. They put "COOK THROUGHLY" on the front of the box.
• Ingenuity (recklessness?) of the general public starts repurposing into cold dips.

Clearly if the company itself is advertising alternative uses, they should have analyzed the risks to make it RTE. But where does the responsibility lie for the company to say proactively monitor instagram to see if anyone is promoting alternative uses that their HACCP plan hadn't considered?

 

Also, this calls to mind yeast companies during Prohibition (1920's where the US federally banned alcohol). They would print on their packaging something to the effect: "CAUTION: Don't mix 1 packet of yeast with a gallon of grape juice, and store in a warm dark place for about a month, because that would make wine, which is totally illegal ;-) "

[GMO]

The fact that this is on their own website says something...........https://www.liptonki...egory/dips.html

I believe after a massive food safety issue due to misuse, they were reformulated with heat treated ingredients in an acceptance that people would use it for this purpose. Application of the HACCP principle I alluded to could have prevented the massive food safety issue first or at least detected it at an earlier stage.

 

 

So, in an attempt to rein in this thread, the evolution of this is interesting. Taking Onion Soup mix for example:

• Company starts producing Soup Mix, with the original intent to be added to hot (enough to kill salmonella) water.
• Maybe they don't control for salmonella, as package directions indicate an at home kill step. They put "COOK THROUGHLY" on the front of the box.
• Ingenuity (recklessness?) of the general public starts repurposing into cold dips.

 

This is my point. And the explosion of food blogs, vlogs etc etc means someone with zero food safety knowledge can start to recommend foods to be used in ways they were never intended. BUT at least these are now searchable and trends are easier to spot so while they move quickly, at least someone who is looking into food trends, e.g. commercial team members, can flag these risks to HACCP teams.

 

There is a grey area of "never going to be safe" which I find fascinating. Raw chicken, blanched frozen peas. Those two things will never be safe unless they're cooked chicken processed well and with a sensible shelf life or fully cooked peas which would obliterate quality on reheat. As more consumers grow up in households where cooking is not a skill shared with kids, this could become worse. 

 

Then you have large movements of people going on. This can in itself create risk. For example, back in the mid 2010s, there were issues with the British Chinese community and daffodil poisoning.

 

Keep daffodils away from food, supermarkets warned - BBC News

 

Daffodils are commonly sold in early spring and were commonly merchandised close to vegetables and sold in bud. These were confused as a chive and eaten causing poisonings.

 

Much as I deeply do not want to go back to the doom loop of earlier in this thread, it did prove that national recipes which are common in one country can be uncommon in another. I was in Switzerland recently and some meals which I saw in the supermarket were unclear to me if they were ready to reheat or ready to eat. The product looked fully cooked but it's only because I speak enough German that I could tell they weren't. If you were a recent immigrant from Syria or Poland, would you know?

 

Of course you can't protect against the mindblowingly stupid and I'd only suggest what is reasonable to predict but I just find when I look at HACCP plans, this is done REALLY badly. Most HACCP teams are not considering it at all.

[CountChocula]

Chocolate has many psychoactive compounds, so naturally, as one does, people have been trying to find ways to get high from it. There was a chocolate snorting fad a few years ago. I don't think it took off, but it made some headlines. I've also heard of people eating large quantities of chocolate for its effects. I'm sure it was smoked at some point too. The wackiest approved use I've heard of is cocoa butter suppositories for hemorrhoids. If it works, it works. Such a versatile plant.

[GMO]

Chocolate has many psychoactive compounds, so naturally, as one does, people have been trying to find ways to get high from it. There was a chocolate snorting fad a few years ago. I don't think it took off, but it made some headlines. I've also heard of people eating large quantities of chocolate for its effects. I'm sure it was smoked at some point too. The wackiest approved use I've heard of is cocoa butter suppositories for hemorrhoids. If it works, it works. Such a versatile plant.

 

And this was your first post???

 

All is taken back. I'm now glad I started it.   

Welcome to the forum!

[TimG]

Yes, we have Count Chocula himself now in here pushing his psychoactive wares. I'm glad you started this topic, GMO.

[MDaleDDF]

I'm dead.... Someone needs to own up to posting that count chocula bit so they can be hailed properly.


Just FYI if you google if it's ok to eat onion soup mix raw, AI returns that yes, it's safe to do so.    If you google if same soup mix needs to be cooked before consumption, AI says yes, it's needed to kill salmonella.....lol.  

Consumers don't stand a chance.   Best to just commit seppuku now.

Edited by MDaleDDF, Today, 05:21 PM.

[kconf]

Right. AI's results could be coming from Reddit/Quora subs. It is funny how our own bs can be fed back to us. 

[CountChocula]

I'm dead.... Someone needs to own up to posting that count chocula bit so they can be hailed properly.

I prefer to lurk in the shadows.