6 replies to this topic

[vbutler]

Afternoon fellow foodies

Quick (and perhaps silly?) question. Company I am with buys in Frozen Breaded Plaice . This product has cooking instructions advising customer to fry product for 6-7 minutes.......would you consider this product raw? or partially cooked?
Reason i am asking is I am carrying out a random micro test on the named product and want to interpret the results correctly.
Cheers!

[Charles.C]

Dear Val,

Not quite sure I fully understand yr query.
I presume question means that you are buying declared RAW frozen breaded fish and want an opinion as to whether it will be fully cooked after the referred 6-7 mins at which point you are making yr micro test??

Weight of portion??
Thickness??
Oil Temp.??

The typical technical answer is core temp must reach 70degC for at least 2 mins (or equivalent) to satisfy typical micro. criteria for cooked seafood..
The typical non-technical answer you often see IMEX is that product must be “piping” hot throughout. A quick eating test will usually give you a “no way”, “maybe/maybe not”, “definitely” result. This is often correlatable to the measured core temp. with the 70degC above being a typical minimum target value (the 2min above is related to the ability to achieve a satisfactory removal of a reference pathogen, usu. L.mono. from memory.)
Sorry if you knew all this already or I misinterpreted query!!

Rgds / Charles.C

[vbutler]

Hi

I didn't explain myslef properly ..apologies!
This breaded plaice we sell to restaurants and last week we recieved a complaint re the 'unpleasant odour ' coming from the product both when it was first removed from the box and when it was cooked. As we merely buy in the fish and sell it on as do our suppliers themsleves I want to send a sample from the same 'problem' batch for micro but am unsure whether you would consider this a raw or partially cooked product ?
I hope that my query is some what clearer ? thanks charles.

vb

[Charles.C]

Dear Val,

OK, think I understand now.
The product as received by you is probably "raw" since the subsequent treatment looks like a "full" cooking process if the pieces are typical retail size and oil temp ca 180degC.
You might consider thawing a piece / cooking a piece and checking the odour (particularly if you know a production date and especially if you have the original, hopefully not completely used, suspect carton.) Such off-odours are often quite noticeable although lots are often derived from multiple sources unfortunately. It's not exactly recommended in such a situation but if you're feeling brave, tasting is also informative though it helps if you have a known "good" sample as a ref.
If no obvious problem, you might also usefully investigate how the products were stored at customer's end (eg refrig.temps) although such info, is not always easy to extract (eg a disintegrating external carton is somewhat suspicious!)

Unless something really drastic has happened, micro.results are often inconclusive IMEX but good luck anyway!

Rgds / Charles.C

[YongYM]

Dear Vbutler:

I think the product is intermediate (you may considered it as raw) as your customers need to further process (frying etc) it before they consume.

The odd smell may be due to microbial proliferation, chemical reaction e.g. hydrolysis, oxidation or due to the presence of any chemical contaminant.

You may consider checking your own chilling/freezing system, your transport, supplier's transportation or even carry out a supplier audit.

[vbutler]

Hello Yong and Charles

This is the only complaint I have received about this product (thankfully) but all the same like to follow through on all such complaints. So thank you both for the advice and info. I have contacted the suppliers and (of course!) all their documentation is in order and our site to be fair is ok with regard to temps so will gather and compile all info and hope for a 0 complaints going forward. Cheers!

[Charles.C]

Dear Val,

I will add a bit more which will hopefully not confuse you further -


I sort of agree with YongYM in that the terminology used in this area is not very precise. IMEX, there are two basic processes for making frozen breaded fish – (a) direct coating of the raw fish with batter / breading followed by freezing, this is typically designated frozen raw breaded fish and (b) adding a further process after the coating step in (a) involving heat treatment designed to “set” the coating but without cooking the fish inside (practically there may be some cooking depending on the thickness of the fish). Type (b) is often called “pre-fried” or “pre-cooked” (similar to the typical fish finger) and sometimes even “cooked “, however from a micro.perspective both (a) and (b) are generally classified as “raw” based on the intended condition of the fish and the stated requirement of a complete cooking step by the consumer. Maybe there are fully cooked breaded fish items for the microwave market also but I have never seen them yet ( although breaded shrimp, yes) and they would not require the final frying s described.


Rgds / Charles.C

Edited by Charles.C, 15 February 2007 - 11:08 AM.