33 replies to this topic

[Theo]

Please does anyone have idea of internet links to information on Hazard Analysis for production of Hummus (or Humus, Houmus as its sometimes spelt). If anyone as had actual experience in conducting hazard analysis of Humus I would appreciate useful tips on Hazards to consider for this product [especialy microbial ones]. I know L.Mono is number one but are there other subtle hazards to consider?

THEO

[Jean]

Dear Theo,





In additin to L.monocytogenes the following can be considered:-



E.coli can be a probable bacterial hazard if you add any leafy produce like parsley without adequate sanitization, cross contamination, lack of personal hygiene practices etc.

Bacillus cereus can be considered as it is commonly found in pulses, cereals, spices etc. and due to temp abuse or cross-contamination / recontamination due to addition of other ingredient to cooked foods.

Salmonella can also be a probable hazard in tahini paste

Mycotoxins from Aspergillus and Penicillium Fungi can also be identified as a hazard from tahini paste and even the olives (black).



You can also include the allergens here if you wish especially with sesame being an ingredient or if peas are used.

[Jean]

S. aureus can also be considered as the staff can contaminate during the preparation again this may depend on your processing method. In catering units there is a probability.

[Theo]

Thanks Jean,

What do you think....will I be correct in considering Clostrdium perfringens for the dried chickpeas thats the major ingredient?

I would still like to throw to the house if there is anyone with knowledge of HACCP application in humus production that can offer more tips and links to websites.

THEO

[Theo]

Hi Jean,

Per the Staph...there is little hand contact durimng the processing as its a factory kind of thing...so I would see that as less of an hazard in this context.

THEO

[Charles.C]

Dear Theo,

This document may hopefully answer some of yr queries.

 haccp_manual_traditional_foods.pdf   675.43KB   746 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jean]

What do you think....will I be correct in considering Clostrdium perfringens for the dried chickpeas thats the major ingredient?

I wouldn’t consider Cl.perfringens for dried foods as water (a_w-free water which is not linked to any nutrients or any components like salts etc.) is required for the growth & survival of Cl.perfringens. The optimal a_w is 0.97-0.99 for the growth. At lower a_w between 0.93-0.96 the growth decreases and this again depends on other parameters like pH, temp etc.



IMO, Clostridium perfringens can be considered after the cooking stage i.e. during cooling as pathogen is a spore former where the spores are activated by heat, and may germinate and grow if the cooling time/temp parameters are not controlled.The food poisoning by C. perfringens is a concern due to temperature abuse. Small numbers of the organisms are often present after cooking and multiply to food poisoning levels during cooling and storage.



Is your product packed in cans or pouches after production? What is the pH of the hommous? The optimal pH for Cl.perfringes is 6-7.





Please see the link for generic HACCP model for Eastern traditional dishes and hope it will be useful.



http://www.emro.who....pdf/E-HACCP.pdf

[Jean]

How is tahini used in your process? Is it ready made or you prepare it in your factory?

[Theo]

Hi Jean,

The main ingredient is Chickpeas, which are dried and imported in bags from Turkey, so I was sort of considering C. perfringens spores as a hazard in that ingredient. I.e. they could germinate and multiply when Chickpeas are soaked overnight and then sporulate again during the cooking [i.e. survive the cooking stage].

The hummus are packed in small plastic tubs after production.

THEO

[Theo]

Hello Jean,

The Tahini is ready made i.e. supplied from a seperate factory. Also thanks for the web link, I checke dit out and its very good.

Charles C. thanks for the material posted, it will be useful.

If I need anymore help I will give a shout.

THEO

[Jean]

Dear Theo,



There is no need for a concern regarding the germination of spores during soaking process because the chick peas will be cooked and all vegetative cells are destroyed again and the spores formed during cooking do not cause illness until they germinate and multiply to excess numbers to reach the infective dose during improper cooling & storage conditions due to temperature abuse. Infective dose (number of organisms required to make individuals ill) of Clostridium perfringens has been suggested by U.S. Food and Drug Administration to be more than 100 million cells (100 000 cells per gram) could cause illness. Though, it may also depend on the health of the customer.



You need to control your cooking, cooling and storage temperatures of your final product to prevent or reduce any microbial hazards from occurring.

[Theo]

I agree fully with you Jean per your comments below.

Leaving the bugs behind.....per chemical hazards I looked pesticide residues on the ingredients [chickpeas]. What do you think?

THEO

[lionheart74]

hi:

this haccp manual is not correct >

i know the profesor who write it,he is a leadauditor in loyeds in jordan.

believe me the manual for humus and shawerma is not correct, has a lot of mistikes specialy in hazard analysis

cause i am busy now i will give u this manual
in future i put a lot of information specialy for tradition arabic food>

best wishes

mansour dalgamouni

foos safety senior consultant

Attached Files

•  HM_houmus_eng.doc   175.5KB   404 downloads

[AS NUR]

Dear Mansour..

Can you give the explain more detail ... so i can clear what is the problems of "HAACP Manual" that you say incorrect..

thanks

[Simon]

Does the attached HACCP manual help to get you started Theo?

[Jean]

Dear Mansour,



Do you mean to say the Hazard Analysis is incomplete or not done for all the for all the process steps including the ingredients like tahini, oil etc in the case of Hommous ?

[lionheart74]

dear:

thanx for interesting , so iwill explain some points for the manual i saids about it not correct:

1. when we make a generic model for haccp we always take the ideal procces that will lead the person who want to follow it to learn the right way , cause sometimes as u know in the desion tree we have to change the proccces ,but in theses models they are not close even on what happen in restaurant specialy in middle east not only jordan.

2. if u notice the CCP in the manual ( alot of them not ccp ) they are prerequist program for example the salt ( approved supplier)

3. the step for removing foreign body he consider it not CCP , but actually the dry chikpeas always come very dirty of foreign body even the a grade in the middle east ( the source of it turkey,syria,canada)

4. if u see the CCP in a lot his haccp plans he focus on PH which is it in realy no one in theses procces can handle it or even know about it , he must focus on time and temprature control which is it more effective and esaier to control.

5. this point i will make it a question for all of you . could any consultant make any haccp plan for a procces he didnt know it? just by taking notices from persons?


these are some point for any question i am ready to answer or explain?


with my best thanks and greatful for this great web and i am ready to answer any question about haccp plan for arabic tradional food.

mansour dalgamouni

[lionheart74]

dear simon:

this haccp plan i attached is the best generic u can use , cause this one i made it for a big restaurant which have 14 branches and central kithen, it was certified from SGS .

the procces at the begining was not like this but we change to reduce the numbers of CCP and to make the gmp is realabe to implemnt

mansour dalgamouni

[Theo]

Yes Simon, The HACCP manual from Mansour was quite informative and his argument against the initial Hzard Analysis seems to make some sense. However Mansour's manual addresses humos prep for restauraunt while what I am dealing with is more of a comercial type of processing.

MAnsour - There was no mention per the tahini ingredeint in your Hazard Analysis .....how do you deal with Salmonella risks associated with the tahini you use [or is the humous in your case tahini free?]. Seccondly how did you address pesticide residues from the chickpeas which I expect to be a major chemical hazard for chickpeas from the middle east.

Cheers

THEO

[Charles.C]

Dear Mansour,

It is extremely generous of you to post this HACCP plan.

Not my product area however I think some of the comments previously made are in practice dependent on seeing the risk assessment. For example I find the grinding step looks a rather debatable CCP. I tended to throw analogous (I suspect) items into my first plans but then eventually withdrew them after getting bored with defending what I reluctantly concluded was in practice a rather low risk. Maybe the specific pathogens / temperatures involved (??) may validate yr decision.

I think there is an infinitely possible discussion over choice / use of prerequisites and IMO, the result is invariably subjective, ie if you can demonstrate that yr choice works for you and is validated somewhere, should be good enough. However some books / auditors hv fixed ideas like physical contamination is almost never a CCP and will not accept this. It’s OK if you like arguments but pragmatism is sometimes easier. (I have occasionally used 2 HACCP versions depending on the auditing body ).

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jean]

Dear Mansour,





As you specified, generic models serve as guidelines and may be useful as a starting point, but each company must adapt them to reflect specific conditions of the unit. Generic models do not always list all hazards / control for each type of process / products. The food safety experts of the company is responsible for identifying and controlling all hazards specific to the operation..


Each establishment must conduct a complete hazard analysis for its processes and products in order to identify and control all potential hazards effectively.

[Yianna]

Hi everyone. I have read everything u have wrote so far and all of you seem to be an expert on hummus. I have attached a set of questions, does anyone can suggest anything about them?
Thank s

Attached Files

•  Assignment_Part_One___Two_Risks.doc   26KB   151 downloads

[Charles.C]

Dear Yianna,

Welcome to the forum.

It’s an interesting assignment.

I will make a few observations.

A requested, highly detailed (IMO), “typical” HACCP plan for a non-specified process flow in a non-specified environmental situation.!!

Yr assignment makes no mention regarding prerequisites (approx = GMPs). Are these assumed to be in place or not ? If not, you have an immediate pre - requirement.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that only you may know what the local situation is probably like with respect to the production.

This thread contains several possible scenarios with associated haccp-type analyses. As you can see from the existing comments in this thread, the situation may vary considerably for things like quality of raw material (eg clean / highly unclean), backup technical facilities, etc . My suggestion is to make a quick analysis of the information here / available elsewhere in order to select what you consider is the most representative set of process conditions for you and then post it back here for comments (or even better to make a trial presentation first and then post here, we all know the diffculties in getting these things going so don’t worry about missing things out).

I assume (hope) you already hv a reasonable knowledge base regarding HACCP analysis and related topics.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jean]

Dear Yianna,



I too agree with Charles suggestion, your answers should be linked to a particular production unit where you need to know the process right from the raw materials till the finished product. If you can post your observations and answers then it would be easier for us to comment with respect to the production type undertaken from your end.

[Yianna]

Thanks for the reply. To be honest i am a bit confused we the subject but am hanging in. I have done part one, which is to contact a research on hummus regarding everything, as you may see in the attachement.

I do agree is a vry interested subject, but also when you have the appropriate knowledge and background. I am aware with HACCP but basic thinks only, not . My background is vary limited on this.

I have found your informations for part B very but very helpfull. Am working on it now as my deadline is tommorow

A question that i have is that the HACCP mannual ffor restaurant i find it relevant to my subject, but am not that sure.

Am asking coz i realise that your knowledge is a lot more than mine.
Am a bit about the subject, but due to your infornation i did some work.

Best regards