73 replies to this topic

[Simon]

So you've minimised glass and brittle plastics in the factory, you don't allow any glass or brittle plastic to be brought into the factory by employees and you have a finely honed glass breakage procedure that everyone understands.

So can anyone tell me the point of walking around the plant once a week clipboard in hand to check the computer hasn't spontaneously exploded and the skylights in the roof are still there.

I believe this exercise is completely pointless, can anyone convince me otherwise?

Regards,
Simon

[Franco]

I believe this exercise is completely pointless, can anyone convince me otherwise?

Simon,

just let me tell you what happened once in a brewery.

We were quite sure that everything was OK and fine with glass and brittles

A colleague of a sister company came for an audit and found out that we still HAD a weak point At first We said it was IMPOSSIBLE !

Then he stood for a while looking at the output of the pasteurizing unit and noticed a microscopic flow of CO2 bubbles moving upwards from the bottom of the bottles. He filtered those bottles on a Petri dish and to the surprise of all of us there were microscopic glass fragments .

We did a process review and found out the reason was in the filling machine .

I won't name this colleague in a Forum, he was Canadian, I hope he's lurking somewhere in SDF, but I will always remember his good job.

Did I convince you mate ?

[Simon]

Did I convince you mate?  

Nope it's a good yarn though.

The glass thing that broke in the filling machine was it on your glass register? If it was how often did you audit that it was OK? And why did it take someone from Canada to find it?

Am I glad its weekend.

Regards,
Simon

[MartLgn]

You don't need to convince me Simon, I am tasked with carrying out our site glass audit which is only practical to carry out monthly due to the number of items involved.
If I was to discover say a warehouse skylight broken then we have the debate over what to do... do we trace all pallets that have passed through that area in the 29 days since the last audit ? the hazard analysis determined that the likelihood of glass contamination in that area was low as all product is covered and wrapped, similarly in the majority of cases the likelihood of glass contamination is low due to location or protection measures.
The full glass audit seems a pointless task as the chances of preventing a glass incident are very low, we are considering a start up check of the few glass items that could pose a risk to be carried out by the production crews.
The evaluator who carries out our BRC cat B audit (who you know Simon and is a contributor to this forum) was of the opinion that our glass audit was a waste of time, although it conforms to the standard. I wonder if anyone out there has a 'lite' glass monitoring system that satisfies the BRC/IOP standard ?

[Jan Verhoeven]

the hazard  analysis determined that the likelihood of glass contamination in that area was low as all product is covered and wrapped, similarly in the majority of cases the likelihood of glass contamination is low due to location or protection measures.

The hazard analysis determinED .... This incident is important NEW information! and of great importance to record this incident because it can be marvelous input for the review of the hazard inventory and risk evaluation.

Jan

[Simon]

To continue - in my opinion preparing a global factory glass register is a useful exercise in so much as you know what you have and where it is, hopefully then you can remove as much glass and brittle plastics as you can from the factory environment over a period of time. In other words the glass register and auditing is more to find out what is there than what is not there - if that makes sense. The audit should perhaps be an annual event to see how your minimisation efforts are doing.

The real risk of product contamination from glass or brittle plastics is presented by that which is situated in or around the production process (Franco's example); perhaps it would be sensible to include a check for the presence and intactness of these ‘high risk' items as part of the end of job sign off.

In the event of an incident either something found to be missing at the end of a job or a glass breakage somewhere else in the factory there needs to be clear instructions on what to do, equipment must be available (e.g. glass breakage kit) and operators need to be suitably trained and competent in how to handle such an incident. Maybe an annual mock glass incident (with ice) would be a good test.

I think maybe some of us have taken our eye of the critical issues concerned with controlling glass.

Regards,
Simon

[rheath]

I binned the glass audit years ago as it was a pointless waste of time.

The key control is the glass breakage procedure, ensuring that breakage is dealt with at point of detection from process owners.

To meet the BRC requirements glass 'inspection' is covered within our routine Hygiene/safety patrols.

I did however complete an annual audit of glass register/shop floor at the same time as the annual HACCP review

I have never had any problems with a hygiene auditor on this leaner version of glass auditing.

[Simon]

Hello Richard it's good to see you around again.

It's 7-1 in the poll - who thinks glass auditing is critical and why?

Regards,
Simon

[Charles Chew]

Richard,

The key control is the glass breakage procedure, ensuring that breakage is dealt with at point of detection from process owners.

IMO, you are spot on. I guess that is what "incident management" is all about when an incident procedure is already in place. Impossible to prevent incident but important to know when, how, why and where it happened.

I did however complete an annual audit of glass register/shop floor at the same time as the annual HACCP review

Way to go! I also feel that once a year audit is sufficient.....for review purpose. Whats the point of checking a glass panel once a week for all we know if may just break next week Smart move to do the glass audit concurrent to HACCP Review..........thumbup:

Can't resist giving my comments but I believe Simon is doing a good job in playing devil's advocate.

Cheers
Charles Chew

[Edwina Chicken Currie]

Has anyone risk assessed his/her list, and audited accordingly (Daily for unprotected items, directly above manufacturing / packing / storage areas, etc.)?

[Riley Waterhouse]

minimised glass and brittle plastics in the factory

Simon,
I have a quick question about Glass inventory .... what about light bulbs .....
do they need to be on the inventory if they are inside sealed fixtures, or nearly sealed fixtures .... or florecents inside plastic sleaves? What are the rules??
Thanks
Riley

[Simon]

I have a quick question about Glass inventory .... what about light bulbs .....
do they need to be on the inventory if they are inside sealed fixtures, or nearly sealed fixtures .... or florecents inside plastic sleaves? What are the rules??
Thanks
Riley

Hello Riley welcome to the forums.

If bulbs are plastic coated or protected what are you going to check for? Is the bulb there? Is it intact? Protected bulbs are pretty safe and there's not much danger of a whole bulb contaminating product. Hopefully someone would spot it before despatch.

Maybe you could check that all bulbs are protected.

Then again If your company policy is to only purchase protected bulbs then how else could an unprotected bulb appear? I wouldn't have them on the register, however, I would have a quick look up and do a flick test whenever the opportunity arose. I'd also make sure the site electrician and anyone who purchases bulbs were fully aware of the policy. An important point if you use normal bulbs in offices and such make sure stray shatterable (word???) bulbs cannot get into safe areas. Tight control by an educated electrician is the key. Or the more expensive option use plastic coated throughout the site.

There are no rules - it's just my opinion; hope it helps.

Regards,
Simon

[Riley Waterhouse]

Hello Riley welcome to the forums.

If bulbs are plastic coated or protected what are you going to check for? Is the bulb there? Is it intact? Protected bulbs are pretty safe and there's not much danger of a whole bulb contaminating product. Hopefully someone would spot it before despatch.

Maybe you could check that all bulbs are protected.

Simon, here is the thing none of our bulbs have protective coatings on them, they are in "sealed" light fixtures insead. Ie we have a big number of sodium overhead fixtures where the fixture has a clear plastic sheet on the bottom of them to catch anything if the bulb were to burst.....with this situation, as I type this I realize for my audit I should be checking the integrity of the fixtures.

Thanks for your quick response!



Riley

[Simon]

No problem Riley; feel free to ask anytime.

Regards,
Simon

[Rob C]

Hi

I must agree with previous responses, I feel that it's much more important to ensure that maintenance/electricians etc are completely trained in the Glass Policy requirements

Personally, in a small factory, auditing once a month shouldnt take too long !

It only takes ONE unfortunate incident to put this time into perspective, surely ???



!!

[Simon]

Hi

I must agree with previous responses, I feel that it's much more important to ensure that maintenance/electricians etc are completely trained in the Glass Policy requirements

Personally, in a small factory, auditing once a month shouldnt take too long !

It only takes ONE unfortunate incident to put this time into perspective, surely ???



!!

Not graced the SDF for a while Rob; nice to see you again.

I agree better to be safe than sorry and education and continued vigilance are the key.

[yorkshire]

must agree with previous responses, I feel that it's much more important to ensure that maintenance/electricians etc are completely trained in the Glass Policy requirements

I totally agree with you Rob the breakage procedure / policy is the key thing . I find a monthly glass audit is just an exercise that auditors like to see. A month is far too long to not know about a breakage.

In our factory we have risk assessed the glass (and perspex) items and check accordingly. High risk items which could contaminate product are checked during the start up procedures. Other items are audited between 1 and 3 months. This means that if anything is broken, and breakage procedure not followed, only 1 day's production needs to be isolated rather than 1 month's.

[Edwina Chicken Currie]

What about performing an audit and comparing it to glass breakage reports.
If there are gaps (ie broken glass but no form) the "incident management system" is not sufficient to warrant the removal of glass auditing.
If any breakages noted are covered by breakage forms completed at the time, then maybe there is an opportunity to lighten/minimise the glass auditing system.

Just a thought.

[yorkshire]

What about performing an audit and comparing it to glass breakage reports.

That's what we should be aiming for.

Rather than checking each piece of glass in the factory (is that really and audit?) we should be auditing the systems we have put in place to confirm they are under control.

[JohnLambert]

How about this...

A couple of years ago, one potential customer (nameless duck people) insisted that all spectacle lenses be added to the glass register and also suggested that the lenses be etched with a unique number for traceability.




We said no!

[Simon]

How about this...

A couple of years ago, one potential customer (nameless duck people) insisted that all spectacle lenses be added to the glass register and also suggested that the lenses be etched with a unique number for traceability.

We said no!

Blasted Jobsworths! Mind you not so clever he forgot contact lenses.

 lens.gif   17.9KB   188 downloads

[bibi]

Blasted Jobsworths! Mind you not so clever he forgot contact lenses.

 lens.gif   17.9KB   188 downloads

that is a bit too much
I am just wondering where are we going too far or to fast with safety issues.
Thank you anyway we learn every day new things are shared with others.
bibi

[Simon]

that is a bit too much
I am just wondering where are we going too far or to fast with safety issues.
Thank you anyway we learn every day new things are shared with others.
bibi

Bibi I must apologise for misleading you. I added "FRED123" to the image for a bit of fun. I sometimes forget this is an international forum and many members do not have English (and are silly sense of humour) as their mother language.

Regards,

Simon

[chen]

Bibi I must apologise for misleading you. I added "FRED123" to the image for a bit of fun. I sometimes forget this is an international forum and many members do not have English (and are silly sense of humour) as their mother language.

Regards,

Simon

It's OK Simon. We get to learn something British without the need to be there! How nice (provide and after it was explained)!!

[Simon]

It's OK Simon. We get to learn something British without the need to be there! How nice (provide and after it was explained)!!

Well I try my best Chen; have a nice day!

Simon