12 replies to this topic

[Zeeshan]

Does any body share his/her perception/thinking/examples/experiences to explain following requirement of the standard:

6.2.2 (b) : provide training or take other action to ensure personnel have the necessary competencies,

What may be the other actions???

[a_andhika]

Dear Zeeshan,

IMO the point of the cluase is demanding the company should ensure that all of worker/employee has competency (some would say it consists of: Skill, Knowledge, and Attitude) that adequate with his/her position. Example: A boiler operator should has engineering background and indued with relevant certificate.

Thus, if the worker/employee doesnt has adequate competency, the company should fill the lack by train the worker/employee. And for "The Other Action", IMO it only sayin the other form of competency fullfilment (beside the training). Example: seminary, proficiency tests. Another action that may considered as "radical" IMO: the company should be very selective when hire someone. Make sure that he/she has an adequate competency, especially at food areas.


Regards,


Arya

[Simon]

Just to add Experience also contributes hugely to competency levels. If a worker has been with the company for 20 years he/she will know the job inside out, but may not have had any formal training.

Be careful the 20 years experience could make the employee competent at doing some of the wrong things also. It is important to check good competency through formal auditing, observing and discussing with the employees and also by looking at data such as internal rejections and customer returns. Maybe this will point to some unlearning and rewiring reeducating.

Regards,
Simon

[siddhu]

Does any body share his/her perception/thinking/examples/experiences to explain following requirement of the standard:

6.2.2 (b) : provide training or take other action to ensure personnel have the necessary competencies,

What may be the other actions???

dear Zeeshan

in first case before employing desired competencies are to be made to particular job function, if candidate is not of that competencies the gap is to be identified and further training based on gap identification is to be given
In second case when employee is already doing the job/function should be assessed against particular job function and gap identified to be eliminated by refresher training.

regards,
siddhu

[a_andhika]

Just to add Experience also contributes hugely to competency levels. If a worker has been with the company for 20 years he/she will know the job inside out, but may not have had any formal training. Be careful the 20 years experience could make the employee competent at doing some of the wrong things also. It is important to check good competency through formal auditing, observing and discussing with the employees and also by looking at data such as internal rejections and customer returns. Maybe this will point to some unlearning and rewiring reeducating. Regards, Simon

Dear Simon,

Yups, indeed, Im agree that experience is the best teacher. But unfortunately the system wont let it go that way.. Our auditors requesting certificates or proven record to ensure that the employee has adequate competency. They even tracing the training hours of the employee and match it with the schedule! Humph... System can be so demanding sometimes...


Regards,


Arya

[Charles.C]

dear Arya,

System can be so demanding sometimes...

Yes, and auditors can also be wrong , or perhaps over-zealous (at yr expense!)

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

Dear Simon,
Yups, indeed, Im agree that experience is the best teacher. But unfortunately the system wont let it go that way.. Our auditors requesting certificates or proven record to ensure that the employee has adequate competency. They even tracing the training hours of the employee and match it with the schedule! Humph... System can be so demanding sometimes...
Regards,
Arya

Hi Arya,

I agree that of course evidence of training is a necessary element to verify competence, but it is not the only measure. Knowledge and experience is definitely a part of competence and especially if the results of their work can be shown to be meeting the requirements. So if your auditor is not taking this into consideration then he/she is not competent to do their job IMHO.

Regards,
Simon

[AS NUR]

Competence contain 2 factor they are Soft Skill (Attitude) and Hard Skill (technical)...

And Hard skill came from Job Experiences and Knowledge...

IMEX.. Auditor always ask competency of food handler especially that work in CCP Area... And during Audit we answer that question with data of Educational and experiences background of food handler, and for the new people we provide Trainning records in term of food safety and operational according to they job...That answer make the auditor happy ...

[Erasmo]

Does any body share his/her perception/thinking/examples/experiences to explain following requirement of the standard:

6.2.2 (b) : provide training or take other action to ensure personnel have the necessary competencies,

What may be the other actions???

Hi,
This is an auditor guidance for 6.2.2:

"To satisfy the competence/effectiveness requirements, an organization will typically need to do several things:-



· Identify what competencies are required by personnel performing work which affects quality - or food safety...

· Identify which personnel already performing the work have the required competencies

· Decide what additional competencies are required

· Decide how these additional competencies are to be obtained – training of personnel (external or internal), theoretical or practical training, hiring of new competent personnel, assignment of existing competent personnel to different work

· Train, hire or reassign personnel

· Review the effectiveness of actions taken to satisfy competence needs

· Periodically review competence of personnel"


Saludos!

[Simon]

Thanks for the official line Erasmo.

[Zeeshan]

And for "The Other Action", IMO it only sayin the other form of competency fullfilment (beside the training). Example: seminary, proficiency tests. Another action that may considered as "radical"

Dear Arya,

Would you pls explain what's seminary? Did you mean arranging seminar or delivering presentations? Also I could not understand what do you mean by "Radical".

Regards:

[AS NUR]

Hi,
This is an auditor guidance for 6.2.2:

"To satisfy the competence/effectiveness requirements, an organization will typically need to do several things:-



· Identify what competencies are required by personnel performing work which affects quality - or food safety...

· Identify which personnel already performing the work have the required competencies

· Decide what additional competencies are required

· Decide how these additional competencies are to be obtained – training of personnel (external or internal), theoretical or practical training, hiring of new competent personnel, assignment of existing competent personnel to different work

· Train, hire or reassign personnel

· Review the effectiveness of actions taken to satisfy competence needs

· Periodically review competence of personnel"


Saludos!

Dear ERASMO...Can you give me the link of that documen ? I need for my internal audit next day...

Thanks...

[a_andhika]

Dear Zeeshan,

I beg you pardon for the lack of my vocabularies. Yes, the seminary means a seminar. A company may point their employee to attend a FSMS or HACCP seminar that held by external parties (consultant, certification body, etc), which IMO also may increase their competencies. And the good thing is, a great seminar would give proven certificate to the attendance, which may used as a proof for to the Auditor, that the related employee has tune up his/her competencies after following the seminar.

And for the "Radical" thing, well I suppose to think that mean is a hard and tough way to ensure that your employee has adequate competency. Some company may have a policy like this one: Dont accept an employee who doesnt understand about FSMS, or doesnt has any food technology background. Probably they dont want to spend cost or time of training.

But some company would take a "moderate" way by keep hiring the employee who doesnt aware too much about FSMS, and then fill the lack by train him/her.


Regards,


Arya