21 replies to this topic

[Franco]

Five years ago, the small, rural community of Walkerton, Ontario, Canada fell victim to a devastating outbreak of waterborne disease that caused seven deaths and more than 2,300 illnesses ...
Drinking water in Walkerton

Easy matter to deal with: chlorination is a CCP

How many drinking water suppliers all over the world manage it as a CCP ?

[Charles Chew]

Hi Franco,

When processed water from municipal source is deemed to be potable, lots of people would assume that it is safe for consumption and base on this perceived "safety" obviously when some thing turned out wrong, lots of people is bound to get ill.

Processing public water goes through a huge number of process steps from flocculation to further disinfection treatments where chlorination is only of the steps. It still amazes me how some of this post treated water at times continue to pose problems when post-process microbial tests are routinely carried out using stingent methods i.e. ISO 17025 procedures.

CONCLUSION: As in every thing else, human beings are inevitably to be blamed. There are really no answers to eradicating food safety issues but merely reduction and avoidance. How far do we want to go or can we go.

Regards
Charles Chew

[Charles Chew]

Hi Franco,

When processed water from municipal source is deemed to be potable, lots of people would assume that it is safe for consumption and base on this perceived "safety" obviously when some thing turned out wrong, lots of people is bound to get ill.

Processing public water goes through a huge number of process steps from flocculation to further disinfection treatments where chlorination is only of the steps. It still amazes me how some of this post treated water at times continue to pose problems when post-process microbial tests are routinely carried out using stringent methods i.e. ISO 17025 procedures.

CONCLUSION: As in every thing else, human beings are inevitably to be blamed. Well, I guess, we may say there are really no answers to eradicating food safety issues but merely reduction and avoidance. How far do we want to go or can we go. 

Regards
Charles Chew

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Esther]

Five years ago, the small, rural community of Walkerton, Ontario, Canada fell victim to a devastating outbreak of waterborne disease that caused seven deaths and more than 2,300 illnesses ...
Drinking water in Walkerton

Easy matter to deal with: chlorination is a CCP

How many drinking water suppliers all over the world manage it as a CCP ?

Hello Franco


First, the issue of making water drinkable is an prerrequisite of the HACCP system, so if we assume we are doing it well it should not be in your process flow diagram, neither to submit it for a decision tree.

Otherwise, depending of the process of your company you can determine the risk coming from water.

For example, from a biological point of view, is not the same in a canning industry than in a slauterhouse.

And also, you have to consider the toxic point of view because an excess of chrorine could be toxic.

REgards

[Charles Chew]

Think "Potability"

[frawat]

Sorry, I am just reading the threads and find them very interesting and relevant for us.

Hola Esther, ojalá pudiera escribir en castellano!

I agree with you (I think it is a PRP). But there may be some exceptions.
For example chilling vegetables after blanching and before freezing.

At the chilling step residual chlorine could drop to cero ppm (because of organic load, design, etc.). We found that, strange enough, some E.coli could grow in the chilling water. So we realized that we needed extra chlorination at this step (about 10 ppm inlet water) to keep always a residual of chlorine. Also, we decided to work this chlorination as a CCP.

But, many times in the season, we found that residual chlorine was cero (mostly because of failure in the chlorine injector) and so we were forced to put on hold "non conforming" lots of frozen product. We did some microbiological sampling (which were always negative) and we released these lots (terrible procedure!!).

An auditor "suggested" (he was very nice on this) that we should review our HACCP and so we did. We found that in all cases that chlorine was cero at the chilling tank we never had any presence of E.coli in the product (and only rarely in the water). So we decided that the hazard was not too important to the extent of saying that the product was not safe. And we changed our CCP to just a control point (PRP).

Hello Simon, apart from maybe being silly, is it bad to refer to one's own experiences in this forum?

thanks to all
Francis

Hello Franco
First, the issue of making water drinkable is an prerrequisite of the HACCP system, so if we assume we are doing it well it should not be in your process flow diagram, neither to submit it for a decision tree.

Otherwise, depending of the process of your company you can determine the risk coming from water.

For example, from a biological point of view, is not the same in a canning industry than in a slauterhouse.

And also, you have to consider the toxic point of view because an excess of chrorine could be toxic.

REgards

[Simon]

Hello Simon, apart from maybe being silly, is it bad to refer to one's own experiences in this forum?

Of course not Frawat; your input is truly welcomed, especially your own experiences. Welcome to the forums.

Regards,
Simon

[Jean]

IMO, chlorination of water should be considered as a CCP. The concentration should be maintained for disinfection process and should be checked and monitored periodically. Other aspect for considering the step as a CCP is to ensure excess concentration should not cause any long term health effects like the risks associated with different types of cancer (colon, bladder etc), irritation of the eyes and nose in addition to stomach upsets.



A link from the site below shows

Chlorinated Water can cause AIDS:
Excess of Chromium causes AIDS everywhere!!

http://wonder-cures.com/art11.htm

[GMO]

I don't know if I misunderstood but I think Franco was asking whether water companies have HACCP and if so, whether they decide chlorination is a CCP.

As ex government owned companies in the UK, I've found water companies incredibly slow to adopt any kind of food safety understanding. I recently contacted my local water company to ask what standards they worked to, e.g. what TVC (22 degrees and 37 degrees), what coliform limit etc. I spent two days being passed from person to person. In the end, I contacted the EHO (the enforcement body) to say "can you help?"

[rita]

Our mineral water plant is HACCP certified. Yes chlorination is considered as CCP.

[rita]

IMO, chlorination of water should be considered as a CCP. The concentration should be maintained for disinfection process and should be checked and monitored periodically. Other aspect for considering the step as a CCP is to ensure excess concentration should not cause any long term health effects like the risks associated with different types of cancer (colon, bladder etc), irritation of the eyes and nose in addition to stomach upsets.

A link from the site below shows

Chlorinated Water can cause AIDS:
Excess of Chromium causes AIDS everywhere!!

http://wonder-cures.com/art11.htm

Thanks for the link. Interesting.

[Dr Vu]

Yes chlorination is considered a CCP in our process ( we dechlorinate the water , rechlorinate and holding in a holding tank and dechlorinate again)..
it has a critical limit, a monitoring procedure and a deviation procedure and fits wellinto our plan

what i had concerns with was the carbon polisher ( after the carbon tower) which we use to capture small carbon particles but then after further Risk analysis we concluded that the likelihood of having huge particles was next to zero and it became a CP

Thanks

Vu

Edited by vulindlela, 19 August 2008 - 11:13 AM.

[Dr Vu]

IMO, chlorination of water should be considered as a CCP. The concentration should be maintained for disinfection process and should be checked and monitored periodically. Other aspect for considering the step as a CCP is to ensure excess concentration should not cause any long term health effects like the risks associated with different types of cancer (colon, bladder etc), irritation of the eyes and nose in addition to stomach upsets.

A link from the site below shows

Chlorinated Water can cause AIDS:
Excess of Chromium causes AIDS everywhere!!

http://wonder-cures.com/art11.htm

Thanks for this Jean..

I hold weekly team briefing meetings - discussing various articles- with my team

( either of interest or job related) and this would sure be a nice one to discuss.

[EuGeNe]

From a food (biscuits) industry experience, since water is a main ingredient for mixing the flour or cream for this company, therefore a basic microbiological water analysis is done periodically.

Using ONPG reagent and UV light, we can visually observe the presence of microbs after incubation. The test can detect E.Coli and coliforms.

If analysis yields positive results on a frequent basis, clorination is implemented.

Rgds,
Eugene

[mquishtah]

Five years ago, the small, rural community of Walkerton, Ontario, Canada fell victim to a devastating outbreak of waterborne disease that caused seven deaths and more than 2,300 illnesses ...
Drinking water in Walkerton

Easy matter to deal with: chlorination is a CCP

How many drinking water suppliers all over the world manage it as a CCP ?

[wamamili]

water treatment plants should have a haccp especially for water meant for consumption (drinking) by the general public. Is it neccessary to rely on the final water testing reports for compliance(monthly reports). what about if something happens btn.

[Jean]

water treatment plants should have a haccp especially for water meant for consumption (drinking) by the general public. Is it neccessary to rely on the final water testing reports for compliance(monthly reports). what about if something happens btn.

If process is monitored and controlled at all times, then there is no need to rely on end product testing. Hence that is the main point of having HACCP in place.

[Abhilash]

Water Chlorination can be included in Good manufacturing Practises.
Or
As per ISO 22000:2005 it can be included in Operational PRPs.

[Simon]

Water Chlorination can be included in Good manufacturing Practises.
Or
As per ISO 22000:2005 it can be included in Operational PRPs.

Any comment?

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

Eventually >>> risk analysis ?
Presumably most people will accept the initial necessity of a process-wide, safe water supply which suggests an automatic PRP regardless of standard IMO. If otherwise, one can only assume that the risk analysis shows the water supply is considered “significantly” unsafe due to some frequent event and / or a consequence of catastrophic proportions (thereby over-ruling a lack of frequency), Something like previous examples such as canning / cooling, water purification plants. Or perhaps something analogous to the reason some factories are obliged to maintain large back-up generators in tip-top running condition .
A poll wud be interesting but need to separate the obvious exceptions somehow, eg canning, Unfortunately maybe not so easy to know if people agree exceptions or not.
My opinion, at least 90pct haccp plans set as PRP where a “special” case does not exist in the risk analysis.

Rgds / Charles.C

[AS NUR]

Water Chlorination can be included in Good manufacturing Practises.
Or
As per ISO 22000:2005 it can be included in Operational PRPs.

Dear Abhilash...

to decide for chlorination include ccp or oprp in iso 22000.. we have to consider about severity and probability of hazard.. for example .. if free chlorine in your water to high and your water contain organic materials.. that can react to be TRIHALOMETHANES,

THMs are linked to increases in some cancers, but the potential for human exposure to THMs from drinking water varies with season, contact time, water temperature, pH, water chemistry and disinfection method. Although there is a risk from consuming THMs in chlorinated drinking water, the health hazards of undisinfected water are much greater. The primary standard (maximum contaminant level) for total THMs in drinking water is 0.10 mg/l, and activated carbon filtration removes THMs from water....

so.. you have to find the data of yur free chlorine, organic materials and THMS in your water....

[Alex Arriaza]

Our mineral water plant is HACCP certified. Yes chlorination is considered as CCP.

Rita can u help me out im trying to search for checklists and internal audit papers for our HACCP and CCP_GMP for our bottled water company, we are in the middle of the cert.

Thanks