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ISO 22000 UKAS Pilot Certification Scheme


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Charles Chew

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:08 AM

Hi all,

Is there anyone whose company is involved in the ISO 22000 UKAS Pilot Certification Scheme Projects? It would be interesting to know when you expect to be ready for audit.

From my information, there are 20 CBs selected to participate under this scheme and I am also told the bigger "boys" have already instructed their regional companies to go for it.

FDIS ISO 22K had indicated that the audit will be under guide 62 which will mean that the issue of auditor's competency and recognised qualifications may likely to become a "sticky" issue to deal with. Under normal circumstance, a QMS registered auditor with no food audit log experience is not likely to be allowed to perform audit on a food producer ISO 22K system. Personally, I do not allow non-food registered auditor to audit my clients. Bad experiences :thumbdown:

Auditor conversion training courses are currently ongoing. It sounds good. It is going to be exciting once the implications of this new standard are known when released next month.

What really surprises me is the lack of discussion/forum interest in this area as we get drawn nearer to the release of this international standard. IMO, CBs are already developing or have developed internal audit parameters for the commonly known "HACCP Certification".

Audit checklists of some CBs no longer use the basic Codex guidelines but rather a heightened and stringent version with elements of ISO 22000 already inserted. And, from my experiences, improved HACCP Certification covers more depth and lots more grounds. Meanwhile, I expect ISO 22000 Certification to be pretty demanding.

Charles Chew


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jamesgibb

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 04:25 PM

From my information, there are 20 CBs selected to participate under this scheme and I am also told the bigger "boys" have already instructed their regional companies to go for it.


Charles,

We at Global are one of the 20 taking part in the UKAS Pilot scheme. We've sent off our competence requirements to UKAS (they wanted this by the 30th July) and have not heard whether this is ok or not - see the discussion thread about the time taken to get the BRC certs.

What you are saying about improved HACCP schemes is correct for us, the concept that 22K is a tool to implement a HACCP system has meant that there is now a universally agreed (well nearly) specification which has brought many CB's closer together in their own scheme requirements.

one note of warning: I attended an ISO22K transition course in july last year ( a freebie from one of our offices) and have since been told that because of the changes the IRCA will not accept my attendance on this course and I will need to do a refresher. :doh:
So make sure any course you attend is to the FDIS and not an earlier version.

"arguing with an auditor is like wrestling with a pig in mud, eventually you realise that the pig enjoys it"

Charles Chew

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:16 AM

James,

I am aware of your company's involvement under the pilot scheme and yes, you are right about the strict requirements and recognition by IRCA on the conversion course. I am doing mine on the 3rd week of Sept. We have also registered with UKAS some 10 companies to participate in the pilot scheme which we expect them to undergo ISO 22000 audit betwen Nov. to Feb.

I am currently using two CBs (one UK and the other US) and auditors are IRCA Food Registered. I favour the CB from UK.

It is certainly a standard with huge implications and will certainly cover all current areas covered by IFS and BRC (others) including QMS 9K Food Management Issues except the business aspects.

IMO. it can be a monster if auditors do not have sufficient understanding and accurate interpretation of the new standard. It worries me to death :crybaby: just thinking about it.

I also feel that references to past DIS issues will add strength and understanding to developing and establishing the ISO 22000 FSMS. The release of ISO 22K in Sept. is gong to be very interesting indeed.

Charles Chew


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Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:28 PM

I work with United Registrar of Systems (Part of ROS Holdings) and we are part of the pilot. URS is already HACCP approved under the QMS route by UKAS, being the only CB having that status.



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Posted 08 September 2005 - 07:04 PM

What is the timescale of the UKAS Pilot Certification Scheme? Also what about other countries are their Accreditation Bodies running similar pilots?

Regards,
Simon


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Brian Fowler

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 05:18 PM

What is the timescale of the UKAS Pilot Certification Scheme? Also what about other countries are their Accreditation Bodies running similar pilots?

Regards,
Simon


Hi Simon,
UKAS plans are to complete the pilot on 31 January 2006. For example we will be having our shadow audit mid November which will allow that date to be achievable.
Our auditors for 22000 are BRC and ISO qualified and we are doing training for our colleagues in Eastern countries to ensure that there will be sufficient staff to meet the expected demand.
We are getting demand already from USA, UK and europe , near and far East
Best wishes
Brian
Please note our new address from www.qai.co.uk

Edited by brian fowler, 29 September 2005 - 05:19 PM.


Simon

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 07:25 PM

Thanks for the update Brian.


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Posted 11 October 2005 - 06:59 PM

I guess the Pilot's are in place in other member states and worldwide. Could there be any news about it? :dunno:

Molly



Charles Chew

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 10:09 AM

Our auditors for 22000 are BRC and ISO qualified and we are doing training for our colleagues in Eastern countries to ensure that there will be sufficient staff to meet the expected demand.


Any possibility of getting their contacts to do some audit work in this area for Malaysia and Thailand.

Our system is completed and is awaiting documentation audit already slated for early Dec. follow by site audit.

Regards
Charles Chew

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:46 PM

Any possibility of getting their contacts to do some audit work in this area for Malaysia and Thailand.

Our system is completed and is awaiting documentation audit already slated for early Dec. follow by site audit.

Regards
Charles Chew



Hi Charles,

We are well on the way to accreditation and our global hubs are well prepared. Training has been rolled out across europe, asia and middle east.

Please note our new website links www.bsi-uk.com you can link from there our hub sites world wide

Regards

Joy

Joy Elizabeth Franks

Charles Chew

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 07:50 AM

James,

How did the ISO 22K auditor conversion course (IQCS) go at Sunway Lagoon , Kuala Lumpur?

Base on the recent briefing given to IRCA Certificated FSMS Auditor (IRCA/300/05/1), it was specifically mentioned that transition ISO 22000 CPD and Audits can only be recognized from January 2006 onwards.

Does this mean that all Conversion Training Courses conducted before 1st January 2006 are not acceptable? :dunno:


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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:43 PM

At the ANAB website, they have the following warning:

Note: ISO/CASCO Joint Working Group (JWG) 11 met in Copenhagen Denmark in December 2005 to resolve comments from ISO Technical Committee 34 on the proposed ISO/TS 22003. The JWG expressed strong concern that some ABs and CBs were already offering accredited or unaccredited certificates for ISO/IEC 22000 certification. Most members of JWG 11 anticipate that because of the very high level of audit-team competencies outlined in the current draft of ISO/TS 22003, all or a majority of audits will have to be redone at the expense of the certified organizations. JWG members asked CASCO, through its liaison with the International Accreditation Forum (IAF), to express this concern to IAF and have IAF inform its AB members and CB association members and ask that no more certification audits (accredited or unaccredited) occur until ISO/TS 22003 has a more definitive structure and wording.



Simon

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 09:46 PM

Thanks Sidney. Is you company (DNV) involved with the pilot in the US/UK or elsewhere?

Regards,
Simon


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Posted 05 January 2006 - 07:42 PM

Thanks Sidney. Is you company (DNV) involved with the pilot in the US/UK or elsewhere?

Regards,
Simon

Simon, positively DNV will be involved worldwide with FSMS assessments. I can not disclose where and when we will be participating in accreditation pilot projects to the ISO 22000 Standard, but for sure we will be a major player with a global footprint in this sector.


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Posted 05 January 2006 - 09:00 PM

Hi Sydney,

I think all the major Certification Bodies (Registrars) have realised the massive potential of FSMS Certification. In the UK they've found it difficult thus far to break into the market on schemes such as the BRC Global Standards; mainly because smaller specialised food safety certification bodies have several years on them and have built up a good deal of trust and expertise within the food industry (there is a lack of good quality / qualified food safety auditors for sure). I'm positive things will be different with ISO 22000 and the global servicing networks the major cert bodies have in place.

It should be interesting.

Regards,
Simon


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Charles Chew

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 04:20 PM

In the UK they've found it difficult thus far to break into the market


The situation is somewhat anticipative over at our end. Organizations are beginning to believe very strongly that it is inevitable to see a revamp of the "mutual agreement" between EU and other countries pertaining to export permits with regards to food safety specifics "a la HACCP" particularly for meat and fish base products.

There is a general believe that once ISO 22000 becomes EN ISO 22000, the entire landscape will be forever changed and many are considering the new standard to avoid either being left out of the "trade game" or loose market share...........as it is very likely that the mutual agreement will be amended in line with the EN ISO 22000

Will this be the "core reason" for the demise of private & national food safety standards.

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 09:28 PM

Will this be the "core reason" for the demise of private & national food safety standards.


Do you really think so Charles? I'm not so sure in the UK; they worked to hard for it.

Simon

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Charles Chew

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:45 AM

Simon,

I have received information from a friend who has been asked to give a presentation to one of the Big British Retailers in my region on the implementation/certification of ISO 22000.

Not sure if this call is purely for information gathering but judging from the level of relationship involved, it appears to be serious. Now if this is by any means a step forward for ISO 22000.........it should augur well internationally


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Posted 17 January 2006 - 09:08 AM

Simon,

I have received information from a friend who has been asked to give a presentation to one of the Big British Retailers in my region on the implementation/certification of ISO 22000.

Not sure if this call is purely for information gathering but judging from the level of relationship involved, it appears to be serious. Now if this is by any means a step forward for ISO 22000.........it should augur well internationally


Whether it's purely for information gathering purposes or not; it is good to know they are taking an active interest. Thanks for that Charles.

For my interest Charles as you have a good understanding of ISO 22000 and BRC Global Standard - Food. What do you think a company who has BRC Certification would need to do to achieve ISO 22000? How far are they away?

Regards,
Simon

Simon

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Charles Chew

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 05:47 AM

What do you think a company who has BRC Certification would need to do to achieve ISO 22000? How far are they away?


Simon,
For your information, I built my ISO 22000 PRP Program from my BRC-Food GMP Structure. While the HACCP Plan is in line with Codex's recommendations, the only major difference is in the Quality Manual which is essential if audit is going to be organized or the auditor to have a better overview of your plan / system.

Although, its not mentioned that a Quality Manual is required, personally I do not agree. If a QMS is going to sit on top of the HACCP Plan and the PRPs - does it make sense if the standard itself becomes the defactor QMS without further defining what your organization intends to cover on the scope of your FSM System?

I think the validation, verificaiton and system upgrade is ther other gap that needs to be covered. Part from that I sincerely believe a conversion of BRC-Food to ISO 22K requires more comittment than any thing else while a conversion from a basic Codex HACCP to ISO 22K would require a lot more work. However, (some proprietary HACCP Programs) that require a more demanding approach (i.e. Codex HACCP + Specific Requirements) would fit in very well.

The other problem is if a current ISO 9001:2000 does not have an integrated ISO 15161 built in, I would rather start the QMS from zero base rather than figure out which provisions need to be transferred into the ISO 22K FSMS.

Naturally, the above is my approach / style while there are lots of other implemented ISO 22K
Systems that take a different route and are equally successful.

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Charles Chew
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 09:36 PM

Thanks for that Charles; so if ever required by UK retailers it wouldn't be such a job for BRC compliant companies.

Simon


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Posted 27 January 2006 - 06:54 AM

UKAS plans are to complete the pilot on 31 January 2006.


Does anyone know if they are on traget for 31 January?

Simon

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