29 replies to this topic

[Rizwan Ahmed]

hi everyone.
i am working in a five star hotel and associated with food safety.
i have a question if someone could give me feed back for this:
if the Re-heating is a CCP? or not?

[Tony-C]

hi everyone.
i am working in a five star hotel and associated with food safety.
i have a question if someone could give me feed back for this:
if the Re-heating is a CCP? or not?

Reheating is almost certainly a CCP. You are required to reheat to a temperature above the danger zone(63 ° C). Most people would reheat to their normal cooking temperature 75 ° C (some use 82 ° C) as a minimum temperatures other people use time/temperature combinations.

Regards,

Tony

[a_andhika]

Dear Riz,

Could you elaborate more specific about your type / kind of re-heated food? What time/temperature combination that you use? Certain foods might deteriorate if re-heated.

It is true that the save temperature is around 80oC, but as far as I am concern its for cooking purpose. If you re-heated product with that temperature, I am afraid it may spoil your food.


Regards,


Arya

[Tony-C]

Dear Riz,
It is true that the save temperature is around 80oC, but as far as I am concern its for cooking purpose. If you re-heated product with that temperature, I am afraid it may spoil your food.
Regards,
Arya

From NZ/Aus Food Standards

It is good practice to reheat all food rapidly to at least 70ºC and hold it at that temperature or hotter for at least 2 minutes.

From a UK local authority(Powys)

One obvious hazard is the survival of food poisoning bacteria in insufficiently cooked and reheated foods. High-risk food such as processed & rolled red meat; poultry and food containing egg should reach a core temperature of 75°C or above. At this temperature food poisoning bacteria will be destroyed.

If reheated food is going to spoil then throw it away.

Regards,
Tony

[Eng. Mustafa Salma]

hi everyone.
i am working in a five star hotel and associated with food safety.
i have a question if someone could give me feed back for this:
if the Re-heating is a CCP? or not?

Dear friend,

Sure, the re-heating process is considered as ccp because many of food-poisoning bacteria can survive and grow if the temperature is not kept at the right level, so to ensure that food become safe you have to re-heat food to above 75 Celliues degree.

Regards
mustafa

[Jean]

Hi!

Reheating is considered as a CCP in most hotels, but if heat resistant toxins (S.aureas, B. cereus) are produced in the cooked foods due to temp. abuse after the cooking process, then re-heating does not destroy the toxins and may lead to food poisoining.

[Tony-C]

Hi!

Reheating is considered as a CCP in most hotels, but if heat resistant toxins (S.aureas, B. cereus) are produced in the cooked foods due to temp. abuse after the cooking process, then re-heating does not destroy the toxins and may lead to food poisoining.

That's correct Reheating is not a CCP for heat resistant toxins as it does not reduce or eliminate the hazard. The previous cooling process is the CCP in avoiding toxin production.

Regards,

Tony

[Chempavai]

Hi

In my hotel I have considered reheating as an OPRP, reason being I am unable to monitor each and every product that is being reheated. My auditor is Ok with this decision.

Regds
Chempavai.

[Charles.C]

Dear riz,

As stated above, almost all the examples on the net agree that re-heat is usually a ccp, eg –

www.qahealth.org/forms/HACCP%20plans%20info.pdf

http://blog.etundra....-processes-ccp/

The usual haccp analyses mainly consider "simple" bacterial hazards. The situation is certainly more complicated (as per Jean/Tony) if toxins and viruses are potentially also involved , eg

Limitations of Reheating as an On-site Correction

One on-site correction used in the field is reheating. A common
misconception is that reheating is a “magic step” for eliminating hazards
resulting from improper holding or cooling. If a ready-to-eat, potentially
hazardous food is improperly held or cooled, the potential for spore- or
toxin-forming bacteria growth increases. Whether to recommend that
the food be reheated or discarded depends on a number of factors
including, but not limited to –

• the hazards of significance
• the nature of the food
• its intended use
• other important considerations discussed later in this section
including the degree of time and temperature abuse

Although reheating can eliminate vegetative bacterial cells resulting from post-cook
contamination (i.e. Salmonella) or from improper holding or cooling (i.e. Clostridium
perfringens), it has limitations that must be considered.

Some bacteria form spores that survive cooking. These spores can germinate and
grow if food is improperly held after cooking. Bacterial spores are likely to be present in
most foods. When a food is expected to contain spores of toxigenic bacteria such as
Clostridium botulinum or Bacillus cereus, reheating may be ineffective. The emetic
toxin of B. cereus, which has been largely associated with outbreaks in starchy foods, is
very stable to heat. While the toxin of C. botulinum may be destroyed with extended
reheating, the critical limit for reheating in the Food Code (165 ºF for 15 seconds) will
not be effective in ensuring the food’s safety.

Staphylococcus aureus does not produce spores, only a heat-stable toxin when present
in large numbers. Time- or temperature-abused, RTE, PHFs that are touched by bare
hands or otherwise contaminated with the organism are at risk.

Neither cooking nor reheating destroys chemical hazards such as ciguatera toxin or
scombrotoxin in fish; therefore, fish that are subject to these hazards and are received
from unapproved sources or at improper temperatures should be rejected.

(RTE = ready-to-eat, PHF = potentially hazardous food)

http://www.fda.gov/d...s/UCM078159.pdf.

I suppose the usual basic analysis implicitly assumes that the above complications are absent due to proper "handling". There are many examples where this was in practice not the case.

Additionally, many people seem to like to gamble, eg

http://uk.answers.ya...30050813AASYOug

http://www.stilltast...index/48/page:1

Rgds / Charles.C

[Rizwan Ahmed]

dear all,
thank you very much for your costructive feedback. now i just want to share my thinking.
considering the following parameters:
Cooking as CCP (under control)
Cooling process CCP (under control)
Chilled storage CCP for high risk foods (under control) with additionally applied recommended safe shelf life for all the products
when all the above parameters are under control and without any deviation then what is the significant reason left to consider it as CCP and not just a CP?
it could be CCP if we assume that there might have been some temperature/time abuse..but if not then??

[Rizwan Ahmed]

Dear Riz,

Could you elaborate more specific about your type / kind of re-heated food? What time/temperature combination that you use? Certain foods might deteriorate if re-heated.

It is true that the save temperature is around 80oC, but as far as I am concern its for cooking purpose. If you re-heated product with that temperature, I am afraid it may spoil your food.


Regards,


Arya

dear arya,
in the hotel we have to reheat variety of foods, particularly for ala carte menu. which we need to prepare in advance as it has to be delivered within specific time frame as of standard. these foods include but are not limited to soups, sauces, rice, chicken curry etc.

[Charles.C]

Dear riz,

when all the above parameters are under control and without any deviation then what is the significant reason left to consider it as CCP and not just a CP?
it could be CCP if we assume that there might have been some temperature/time abuse..but if not then??

If I understand correct, you are asking about the application logic of haccp. I think you hv effectively answered yr own question.

The extract below may assist (strictly speaking, the term "risk" should perhaps appear in some places) -

 haccp_concepts.png   83.96KB   58 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

Dear riz,

If I understand correct, you are asking about the application logic of haccp. I think you hv effectively answered yr own question.

The extract below may assist (strictly speaking, the term "risk" should perhaps appear in some places) -

 haccp_concepts.png   83.96KB   58 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

Thanks for the info Charles.

By risk I assume you mean significance?

Regards,

Tony

[Rizwan Ahmed]

reheating of food is CCP becuase during the process of reheting "germination of spores might take place" and there is no subsequent step in the process line which can reduce/eliminate the hazard, thus all foods cooked, cooled, cold held, reheated and hot served must be reheated to 82 C.

regards.

riz

[a_andhika]

Question,

If the Cooking process can kill all pathogenic micros, does it need to re-heated again (for killing pathogenic micro purpose)? If so, then the storage must be not controlled with well.

If we consider the cooking, cooling, and storage as CCP, then we still need to consider re-heat is a CCP too? Unless the environment of re-heat process is not hygiene, IMO it is a CP one.

@Tony: Sorry for my bad vocab, the 'spoilage' term is refer to the quality of the food. Ex: Over browned coz too much re-heated. By any mean of food spoilage, yes I would definitely throw it away.

[Rizwan Ahmed]

dear anadhika,
cooking will not kill the 100% pathogenic microorganisms in the food as it is not sterilization. chilled storage is CCP for processed ready to eat potentially hazardous foods.
at chilled storage CCP is to maintain the chiller temp below 5C at all times and needs to be monitored every four hour interval. CP at this stage is the control of shelf life.

reheating is important step to kill the germinated spores of pathogenic microorganisms which were activated by heating and is a CCP as afterwards even if the food is hot held at buffet etc. its temperature wil not reach at 75 C which is requirement to kill pathogenic microorganisms.

i think if i m able to clarify your question:)

[Tony-C]

Question,

If we consider the cooking, cooling, and storage as CCP, then we still need to consider re-heat is a CCP too? Unless the environment of re-heat process is not hygiene, IMO it is a CP one.

Hi there

Even if your procedures are hygienic and you haven't contaminated the food the reheating will be a CCP because the food may contain spores (Such as Bacillus cereus) that could germinate and grow if the reheating process is not correct.

Regards,

Tony

[a_andhika]

Thank you riz and Tony,

Its clear as crystal right now.

[Rizwan Ahmed]

thanks Tony

[Berent]

Yes - definitely CCP

[mob]

i think it is not ccp when we use 2h/4h princaple so that is the ccp not reheating

[GMO]

You have to decide as a team; however, reheating could be a CCP and I would certainly consider it that way.

I don't see why each dish could not be checked to see it's reached temperature though Chempevai?

I would consider it as a CCP unless your food is sterile. Every time you go through the heating / cooling cycle you are creating ideal conditions for microbial growth so it seems important to me to ensure a decent temperature is reached and importantly reached quickly. The time of cooling and reheat should be factored in as part of your cooling and reheating CCPs IMO as well because if you have very slow cooling and reheat (for example in a rice dish or a meat casserole) you could then end up with problems with B. cereus or C. perfringens.

Ultimately though it's your team's decision and you have to be able to back it up and defend it to auditors.

[Gourav]

Reheating is almost certainly a CCP. You are required to reheat to a temperature above the danger zone(63 ° C). Most people would reheat to their normal cooking temperature 75 ° C (some use 82 ° C) as a minimum temperatures other people use time/temperature combinations.

Regards,

Tony

Hi,
Reheating is most definitely is a CCP.
Thanks
Gourav

[Vik]

Hello Riz,

The likelihood of occurrence and the severity of the idetfied hazards are two major factors which you should consider during this analysis, prior deciding on the CCP factor.

You are talking about two different process steps "storage and reheating'.

I request you to work on the below factors first:

The characteristic of the product stored and its susceptibility of each category towards microbes, the type of microbes and its activity.
Internal lab reports as well as external literature's related to the micro susceptibility of stored products.
Process failure; Ex: In house temperature failure records, break down details etc. from your facility maintenance history.
Details related to recent reacall of the product of same kind/Internal loss of control/Food poisoning incidents etc. (Internal as well as External)


Capability of the final step (reheating) to eliminate or reduce the identified hazards. (Vegetative cells, spore formers, Toxins (Types) etc.


Guidelines from the regulatory body.

Please thoroughly go through the cumulative study report and your process hazard analysis, look for the following factors like chances of growth during storage or introduction of such hazard during the reheating process, the microbes indicated by your hazard identification process indicates significant severity/not, the facility cannot identify whether the effect of the control measure from the visual appearance of the product (ie. a viable product can be produced even if the process step fails), is this the last step to eliminate or reduce the micro load and a instant monitoring is possible etc. prior considering this step as a CCP. The prime thing is that your system should logically prove whether you are reheating the food to make it 'safe' or "suitable".




Thanks,

[Tony-C]

Hello Riz,

The likelihood of occurrence and the severity of the idetfied hazards are two major factors which you should consider during this analysis, prior deciding on the CCP factor.
You are talking about two different process steps "storage and reheating'.
I request you to work on the below factors first:
The characteristic of the product stored and its susceptibility of each category towards microbes, the type of microbes and its activity.
Internal lab reports as well as external literature's related to the micro susceptibility of stored products.
Process failure; Ex: In house temperature failure records, break down details etc. from your facility maintenance history.
Details related to recent reacall of the product of same kind/Internal loss of control/Food poisoning incidents etc. (Internal as well as External)


Capability of the final step (reheating) to eliminate or reduce the identified hazards. (Vegetative cells, spore formers, Toxins (Types) etc.
Guidelines from the regulatory body.
Please thoroughly go through the cumulative study report and your process hazard analysis, look for the following factors like chances of growth during storage or introduction of such hazard during the reheating process, the microbes indicated by your hazard identification process indicates significant severity/not, the facility cannot identify whether the effect of the control measure from the visual appearance of the product (ie. a viable product can be produced even if the process step fails), is this the last step to eliminate or reduce the micro load and a instant monitoring is possible etc. prior considering this step as a CCP. The prime thing is that your system should logically prove whether you are reheating the food to make it 'safe' or "suitable".
Thanks,

Given that this is a food safety in catering dicussion I would suggest that this seems to be over the top, complicated and somewhat confusing.

Given the range of products this could apply to, are you really suggesting you do this for each product?

The characteristic of the product stored and its susceptibility of each category towards microbes, the type of microbes and its activity.
Internal lab reports as well as external literature's related to the micro susceptibility of stored products.
Process failure; Ex: In house temperature failure records, break down details etc. from your facility maintenance history.
Details related to recent reacall of the product of same kind/Internal loss of control/Food poisoning incidents etc. (Internal as well as External)

For a start how many catering outlets that have their own internal Laboratories

Regards,

Tony