29 replies to this topic

[Charles.C]

Dear Tony,

For a start how many catering outlets that have their own internal Laboratories

Well, it was a 5-star hotel

I do believe a certain Mr Snyder might approve of the basic thoroughness of the approach
http://www.hi-tm.com/

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

Dear Tony,

Well, it was a 5-star hotel

I do believe a certain Mr Snyder might approve of the basic thoroughness of the approach
http://www.hi-tm.com/

Rgds / Charles.C

Hi Charles,

I don't think I've stayed in a 5 Star Hotel and didn't realise they have their own Laboratories so thank you for enlightening me on that

A lot of useful info from that link - Thank you

I don't see anything from Mr Snyder on reheating. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?

Regards,

Tony

[Rizwan Ahmed]

Hi Charles,

I don't think I've stayed in a 5 Star Hotel and didn't realise they have their own Laboratories so thank you for enlightening me on that

A lot of useful info from that link - Thank you

I don't see anything from Mr Snyder on reheating. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?

Regards,

Tony

well Tony,

rightly saying 5 stars don't establish their own labs at least in my known circle i havnt seen any yet and outsource all microbial analysis for validation and continous verification process.
further to discussion of vik, offcourse products are studied for their characteristics and then put into one of its generic category and a flow diagram is created and HACCP plan is developed. and this is the last step in the proces to control the hazard of spore germination and elimination so, its for product safety and it has to be done at 82C not for suitability as all hot items will suitable to serve at 74-75C.


regards.

Riz

[Vik]

Hello,

My intention was just to provide Riz with a generic guideline. Internal/External lab things may vary.

My suggestion was to utilize the external risk assessment literatures, Internal or external lab reports, Incidents of food poisoning etc to ensure that your HACCP program is rightly framed. It is generally considered as a good practice to collect more details from the industry and external sources including regulatory body to verify whether we have up to date information regarding the recent happening around the globe. Based on the intrinsic factors of the stored product (Lets us say "Generic Category") the microbial susceptibility of the product may vary. If your product is more susceptible for a certain microbial strain and if your kill step is not considering it, you may end up in trouble. Another thing is how you are going to validate your HACCP plan? If you are not collecting the scientific support (ex:risk assessment literatures) you may face serious issues while carrying out practical in-plant demonstration proving the HACCP system can perform as expected. A thorough product study is highly recommended when you are serious about the health of your Customer. If your HACCP team has their own valid reason to identify reheating as a CCP you are doing a good job to provide safe food to the consumer.



Thanks,

[Charles.C]

Dear Tony,

I don't see anything from Mr Snyder on reheating. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction

Well spotted. To be honest it was more a philosophical comment. And, not unexpectedly, incorrect (see [iii] below) . As per the many previous posts some sublteties are apparent, eg –

(i)a relatively straightforward viewpoint with validation (eg US Food Code below), -

(a) http://ezinearticles...sses&id=2691949
(b) linkpost below -

http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__22949
(see 1st attachment, pg 26)

(ii) a rather deeper appraisal of the technical possibilities / consequences, eg the following attachments,


 ReheatingPHF.pdf   33.71KB   23 downloads
(taken from this page - http://sop.nfsmi.org...CPBasedSOPs.php )


 Corrective Actions for HACCP Based SOPs.doc   1.83MB   16 downloads
(see pg2 et seq)

(iii) Opposing views regarding use at a CCP, eg item 30 on Snyder (!) website, pg4 -

"NOTE: Reheating is not used as a hazard control, because it will not control toxins, poisons,
and physical hazards. Once cooked / disinfected, the process must be controlled to prevent the ready-to-eat food from becoming hazardous."

I guess it may simply depend on the situation, etc as usual. Ho, Hum

Rgds / Charles.C