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TFMS / BRC (Site Training)


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aps

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 07:47 PM

Please help me understand the standard regarding training.......

This is to do with training..... I am told at my current job by my Technical Manager if i change a procedure i am not able to train my staff as i dont hold train the trainer certificate.

Now at my old job i carried out all the training which was ok with auditors and customers. This was using the current standards as they are now.

Am i missing something here......."Train the trainer" - correct me if i am wrong as i am at the end of my wits end and it is only Monday, does this mean i have to have this to train my staff??I thought it was to train someone to then go and train the staff??

Thanks



Charles.C

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 07:12 AM

Dear astoker,

I guess it may hv some relationship to the "training job" ?, catching a rat as compared to measuring DNA for example (first one much more difficult of course :smile: )

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


cazyncymru

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:18 AM

The BRC does not say you have to have "Train the Trainer", just that you have to be competent.

What i have done is to have a list of "approved onsite trainers" and it is only these people who can deliver on the job training etc. the list indicates if they've had external traing, or are experienced in the job.
Our BRC auditor was more than happy with this.

Caz



Ken

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:33 AM

Please help me understand the standard regarding training.......

This is to do with training..... I am told at my current job by my Technical Manager if i change a procedure i am not able to train my staff as i dont hold train the trainer certificate.

Thanks


I've never come across this interpretation in an audit situation and have taken a similar approach to Caz. I must admit that I could foresee one of our retailers dreaming this one up though!

You are right in that a 'Train the Trainer' certificate is needed for trainers who who wish to deliver certificated food safety or haccp training and is a requirement from the training body(e.g RSPH, CIEH).

The type of training has been raised in audits I've been involved e.g. if you complete internal training for your haccp teams, then the auditor may be looking for the trainer in the company to have a level 3 (intermediate) Haccp qualification, particularly for high risk operations.


Kamwenji Njuma

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 01:32 PM

I support Caz,the BRC standard does require 'Train the Trainer' but the train must have formal training e.g in HACCP,Internal auditing,etc so that you can reliably train the other staff.To supplement this you can contact training consultants who will provide certificates to the staff may be in annual basis.

Regards,
Kamwenji



aps

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:31 PM

Thanks for your veiws

So in lame terms if i needed to train my staff in the metal detection checks "as an example" because i am the owner of this procedure i can complete this without the training cert asi am competent as i have experiance using such equipment.

cheers



cazyncymru

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:21 PM

Thanks for your veiws

So in lame terms if i needed to train my staff in the metal detection checks "as an example" because i am the owner of this procedure i can complete this without the training cert asi am competent as i have experiance using such equipment.

cheers



As long as YOU can demonstrate competency.
writing or owning the procedure does NOT demonstrate competency.


sskubisnac

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 02:55 PM

This is one of those areas where the water can get a bit muddy. "Competency" can be demonstrated by your work experience within the field. I have only once had issue with this during an audit (TFMS).

A very simple operation (labelling butternut squash) involving three operatives and one supervisor. The supervisor had worked in this capacity within the industry for 10+ years.
I originated all relevant documentation for the operation and 'trained' the supervisor in the necessary procedures and record completion. She in turn passed this training to the three operatives.

During the audit the auditor felt that although I was 'competent' due to my 20 odd years experience in the business, the supervisor was still required to hold a train the trainer certificate ...... to instruct 3 operatives in the most basic of procedures!

Lo and behold a minor non-con followed and we had to send her for the course.

What I'm trying to say is that you can never know what the auditor will decide is important and sometimes you need to ride your luck a wee bit!



Tony-C

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:35 AM

I don't see a problem here, according to BRC people can be competent based on work experience.

You need to review and assess the effectiveness of training and competency of the trainer to comply with BRC.

If you have done this and comply then you cannot be forced to send someone on a train the trainer course. There is no requirement in BRC for this and it is not required by the personnel within BRC who train their auditors.

I have appealed successfully against Non-compliances raised by auditors whenever I have been in the same situation and disagreed with their findings.

Regards,

Tony






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