11 replies to this topic

[Rex]

Dear all

As a auditor of BRC, must have completed a training course in HACCP(BRC V5-aPPENDIX 2).

In china, the training course of HACCP that based on principles of Codex Alimentarius was already canceled and replaced by ISO22000.

Do you know that ISO22000 training as covering HACCP requirements could be accepted for BRC?


Best Regards
Rex

[FSSM]

Dear all

As a auditor of BRC, must have completed a training course in HACCP(BRC V5-aPPENDIX 2).

In china, the training course of HACCP that based on principles of Codex Alimentarius was already canceled and replaced by ISO22000.

Do you know that ISO22000 training as covering HACCP requirements could be accepted for BRC?


Best Regards
Rex

I´m not user of BRC, but I don´t think you can substitute a HACCP course with ISO 22000, the only way I think is that in the content of the course they dedicate enought time and/or material for HACCP. ISO 22000 is based on HACCP principles but is not HACCP.

Regards,

FSSM

[Tony-C]

Dear all
As a auditor of BRC, must have completed a training course in HACCP(BRC V5-aPPENDIX 2).
In china, the training course of HACCP that based on principles of Codex Alimentarius was already canceled and replaced by ISO22000.
Do you know that ISO22000 training as covering HACCP requirements could be accepted for BRC?
Best Regards
Rex

I would think you could demonstrate that HACCP is covered in 22000 training and this would be sufficient for an on site HACCP Team providing they have been assessed as competent. I would expect an auditor to have had specific HACCP training or be able to demonstrate competency based on knowledge or experience.

Regards,

Tony

[Rex]

Hi FSSM and Tony


Thank you very much!


Best regards

Rex Yun

[infoiqc]

An auditor I work with had this problem, one CB accepted his ISO 22000 training for BRC (they had done the training) another CB did not accept it until he sent the list of topics covered which showed that enough hours had been spent on HACCP.

Gail

[LeanSixSigma]

Straight forward answer is no. As we cannot accept the so called HACCP mandated by ISO 22000. That is the reason of the need of BRC. Specially any GFSI equivalent standard like BRC HACCP requirements are really appreciable.

Narayan

[Tony-C]

Straight forward answer is no. As we cannot accept the so called HACCP mandated by ISO 22000. That is the reason of the need of BRC. Specially any GFSI equivalent standard like BRC HACCP requirements are really appreciable.

Narayan

Hi Narayan

Surely ISO 22000 is accepted by GFSI under the guise of FSSC 22000? The additional part of FSSC 22000 being PAS 220 or ISO 22002. Anyway it is unlikley ISO 22000 training alone would be comprehensive enough to qualify someone to audit HACCP.

Regards,

Tony

[LeanSixSigma]

Hi Tony!

Let me say same things differently. The reason ISO 22000 alone is not enough, GFSI provided to upgrade ISO 22000 into FSSC 22000 by adding additional PAS 220 requirements in ISO 22000.

I believe you will not disagree on it.

Narayan

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

The original request is perhaps being somewhat diverted ?

I suggest the basic question is whether “BRC” consider that passing an “acceptable level (?)” training course in ISO 22000 demands an “acceptable level (?)”of ability” regarding the knowledge / implementation of (pure) Codex HACCP.

IMO concept-wise the answer is clearly yes, eg 22000 effectively extends / amplifies the Codex scheme but implementation is perhaps more debatable despite the universally allowed flexibility for both systems.?

The hierarchy probably (?) bias the undefined “acceptable level” above to concepts so that any “training qualified” 22000 auditor would then be considered capable of handling a “mere” traditional HACCP job ?

Nonetheless, interested to know the official (majority?) answer ?

Rgds / Charles.C

PS Of course, I suppose that if GFSI did not like BRC's conclusion, they could always add another mandatory clause ?

[GMO]

I would suggest that the ISO 22000 standard is training against a standard rather than training of the concept therefore, it would be better to do a recognised course in HACCP which is for the purpose of learning about HACCP rather than complying with a standard.

That said, it depends upon the content of the course and if you can demonstrate to a BRC auditor that the content is sufficient, they should not have an argument, however, remember ISO22000 is a competing standard to BRC so they could chose to be belligerent about it

[LeanSixSigma]

I would suggest that the ISO 22000 standard is training against a standard rather than training of the concept therefore, it would be better to do a recognised course in HACCP which is for the purpose of learning about HACCP rather than complying with a standard.

That said, it depends upon the content of the course and if you can demonstrate to a BRC auditor that the content is sufficient, they should not have an argument, however, remember ISO22000 is a competing standard to BRC so they could chose to be belligerent about it

Yes! no doubt on it.

[Tony-C]

I would suggest that the ISO 22000 standard is training against a standard rather than training of the concept therefore, it would be better to do a recognised course in HACCP which is for the purpose of learning about HACCP rather than complying with a standard.

That said, it depends upon the content of the course and if you can demonstrate to a BRC auditor that the content is sufficient, they should not have an argument, however, remember ISO22000 is a competing standard to BRC so they could chose to be belligerent about it

I don't disagree but regardless of training if you can demonstrate competence then is there a problem?