Hello guys, sorry for the very late reply, it’s very rude to start a topic and disappear and it infuriates me. 
Wow!! That is horrible. I don't have anything nearly that interesting. I think the worst we had was an auditor that was a very ..um... LARGE gentleman come to audit our facility and he was unable to perform the audit to specification due to his physical limitations... He didn't even walk around the exterior of our facility (It must have looked like a bit far to travel on foot to him).
Not to mention he was an absolute jerk!
Hi Dale, Along similar lines I have witnessed auditors who are extremely diligent and spend all day looking at everything with a fine tooth come and others who spend a couple of hours chatting and eating sandwiches and cakes, with ½ hour looking over documents and ½ hour in the factory. By the way these are BRC auditors and the certificate was granted. As far as customer auditors go then it is up to them how competently they audit, whereas for third party audits such as for BRC it is unacceptable that they are allowed to operate this way.
OK! Here is one of the other side of the table. I then was only auditor for 1 year.
I was conducting an audit for BRC at a apple sorting and packing company. The communication during the audit was bad. The persons interviewed did not answer my question, which make me re-questioning and when I still did not get an answer re-questioning again. They really made it very clear in non-verbal language that I was asking stupid things, that have never been asked before. It makes me quite unsure. Some where half way the audit I just asked how I should change my way of questioning. They say that it was not needed and everything was fine. We exceeded the audit time just because everything had to be asked 3 to 4 times. (example: "do you have a cleaning schedule?" "what do you mean?" "how do you plan the cleaning?""??? we don't we just clean it every week." "did you document that you clean every week?" "Why should I?"')
During the very late (2 hrs exceeded on a one day audit) closing meeting and after the non-conformities, I asked the manager How he thought that the audit was and we should do different during the next audit. He assured me that nothing had to be changed and that he found that I really did a great job. I really could not understand, why my feelings about the audit was so different, but on the other hand, I was glad it seems to be just my imagination.
But ..... the day after, very early in the morning my manager called me and asked me what went wrong during the audit. I told him. The company was very disappointed with my way of auditing and never wanted to see me again at their site.
I was shocked!
Now, some years later, I understand that sometimes there is no click between the auditor and the auditee, but back then I thought that everyone liked me. What I think is the most annoying, is that I have asked the customer directly for feedback and that he just did not use it to help me improve my qualities. He was not honoust to me. What does that say for the rest of the audit?
So, this is one that is in memory and now shared with you. I am sure that more will follow.
Hello Madam A. D-tor, I think most auditees have been economical with the truth at times. No matter what we say it is a bit of a battle of wits although at least a lot less these days as companies have become more mature in food safety management systems and dealing with food safety audits. I think the company you had the above experience with was perhaps a little immature in this respect.
cazyncymru
Posted 30 May 2010 - 10:26 AM
I must admit that my experience of auditing an Indian factory is entirely different. It was for our own supllier approval. My boss and I were invited over to inspect the factory prior to us sourcing one of our main ingredients from them.
I went there expecting it to be a little less compliant that a UK (Organic) factory, but I was very pleasantly surprised. It was excellent. They treated their staff wonderfully. At lunch time, they all stopped work, and all the workers were fed. The management all sat with the workers for their lunch. In fact, I even sat with them, mind you, there wasn't much conversation!
When i went around the factory, they were taken aback a little that it was a woman conducting the audit, but every question i asked was answered, and by the time i reached the end of my factory tour i had collected a little entourage!
The factory was very clean, with cleaning schedules, PPM, Pest Control etc. Very good records (In English). In fact, they even had a signed, dated Quality statement displayed in the foyer of the factory.
At the end of my 2 day audit, the owner of the factory asked me, in front of my boss, if i would like to come to work with them, as they had been impressed by the way i had respected their customs in dealing with some of the staff. My Boss nearly had a fit, and said "No Way"! You never know, maybe i'll take him up on it!
Caz
In the main these days food packaging companies in India, China etc. are state of the art with modern factories and the most advanced high speed, high quality machinery, with all of the systems and standards in place and with prices much cheaper than can be achieved in the west. We try to fool ourselves into thinking we are superior but we are not anymore and have not been for a while. The above story is from quite a long time ago.
Lies, bribes and weird NCR is very rare phenomena but fights i never heard anytime.
Story:
Once upon a time in a small town there was a meat factory running by mafia brothers they were very strong in their field, one day they decided to go for ISO certification for the factory as it gives benefit and enter in International market and compete with competitors/enemies.
The big brother / MD called the certification body and fixed the audit.
At- last the time came, the auditors (2 persons) entered the factory there was no cleaning, infrastructure was very bad, not following hygiene, at the opening meeting the brothers took-out the knifes and guns and kept on table.
It was horrible moment for the auditors, the meeting started and at last one of the brother given warning to the auditor 'we want certificate within a week', you do what ever but get us the certificate, otherwise you will get hurt!
Obviously the auditor thinks about the family and his survival, with calm minded he started explaining good practices, standards, procedures and he challenged with the brothers, you can do these formalities easily by the help of your staff, it needs some documentation and implementation and given little motivation, next time when we came for auditing you will be ready.
The big brother was smart and he understood and agrees for the re-audit, the auditors left the premises with fear and sweat on their faces.
The time has arrived for the re-audit.
The auditors about to enter the town they saw a big banner 'HEARTY WELCOME - Name of the auditors', on the way they found flowers, carpet at the entrance, surroundings of the premises full of landscapes/greenery and the brother welcomed the auditors in grand way.
The audit was running smoothly, given full co-operation and at last the audit finished with few minor NCRs and few observations thats needs to improve, they closed all the minor NCRs and observations and got certification very soon.
They are the kings now!
this is a true story happened in India some time back, most of the auditors knows about the incident.
Hi Abdul,
That is the most beautiful story I have ever heard, I have a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye. All it needs at the end is “...and they all lived happily ever after” smile: thanks for sharing.
My worst audit nightmare happened with the first lead audit I performed. I had undertaken the five day training successfully and the course trainer was shadowing me. I had 4 auditors who had also just undertaken the training so we were all novices in a way and we were auditing a light alloy foundry. The audit wasn't too well received as the place was to be closed down with loss of jobs and movement of other personnel!
Anyway I got through it and we decided on the NCRs to raise and agreed them with the plant manager and quality bod and got them agreed and signed off.
Come the closing meeting, I said the usual thanks etc, started to say what the findings were and what NCRs we had raisede and the MD of the foundry started arguing and saying he wasn't going to accept them. Well it threw me completely and of course I went bright red! The trainer stepped in and told him in no uncertain terms that the closing meeting was not the forum for disputing the findings. Eventually he shut up and the rest of the meeting went ahead with no more incidents.
The trainer sat down with us after to give the team feedback and he was annoyed with what happened but said how professional we had handled the audit and the meeting and gave us a pat on the back. If it wasn't for that I'm not sure I would still be auditing, though for a different company now.
Hi Rosie,
I believe some natural confidence comes from our own personality, but mostly it is derived through knowledge and experience. Acquiring that knowledge and experience takes time, effort and sometimes a little pain – that experience probably did you some good and no doubt you would be confident of handling the situation should a similar thing happened today. Or you could just chin him.
! Audits are only fun when its someone telling me how awesome I am, not when it's someone telling me how awesome they are at making money from an audit system. Slimey.
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