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#1 DAVE84

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:34 AM

Recently during developing approved supplier program i triggered one problem, where suppliers sends a summary of their HACCP prgram. Which says that how they built program, how they conduct training, how oftenly they provide refreshment training and at the end its says that according to company policy it can not be shared with any one, if we want to review it we have to go on site. Also in thirt party audit document they just send audit score. Is that sufficient documentation to meet SQF requirments? or i must have their HACCP plan or full audit report? or both?


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#2 Simon

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 09:51 PM

Dave, can they send you the index page from their food safety quality manaul? Also are they certified to SQF or other standard, if so maybe you can verify their audit status that way and perhaps get a copy of their report or at least more details??


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#3 DAVE84

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 02:38 AM

Hi Simon,

Acualy most of the company we have as a vendor does not have SQF certification. They go through 3rd party audits. Some of them also do not send audit report saying that its a confedential material. They just send a written statements on the companies letterhead that they have HACCP in place. They just send a score of 3rd party audit and score summary like


maintenance of food safety 180

sanitation and cleaning 190

Maintenance of prerequisite program 195



but from this poiints no body can tell where they lost their points.....

I am having really a tough time... as most of the vendors we have are from long time... and my company had not asked such documents from vendor in past.. i joind the company few months ago.. and now that i am trying to get this info and getting such kind of answers..... I know i am not the only one who faced this problem but i am also bound by deadlines for SQF audit..



#4 Jomy Abraham

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 02:03 PM

Dear DAVE

What is your criteria of Supplier evaluation. If your system is strong, you can collect all the documents. If the supplier system is stronger than yours, it may depend on the brand value of each organization.They can issue either controlled copies or uncontrolled copies of any Valid document. Being a valued Customer, they should provide a copy of report until its considered as confidential under thier system ( product formulas, trade invoice values etc) My suggestions are

1. Develop a Supplier approval System
2. Define the criteria of supplier approval
3. Supplier approval questionnaire should be forwarded to the supplier before signing the contract or during the tender
4. Supplier questionaire should capture some questions like...Do you have ISO/HACCP/,...certifications. If yes attach copy, Will you allow us to audit your manufacturing unit?, Will you provide Cetificate of Analysis with each consignment?
5. Calculate the initial assesment score. Define minimum score for initial approval of the supplier?
6. Collect the sample and conduct the lab anlaysis
7. Conduct a Supplier Audit based on thier permission (as explained supplier questionnaire).
8. Approve the supplier based on your initial evaluation score ( suppier quest), Supplier audit.
9. Develop a Supplier history card and evaluate based on customer complaints, rejections at your dock, timely delivery, communications, commercial values etc...
10. Reject the customer, if the history card score exceeds the minimum score
11. You can also set warning letters before rejecting/deleting the Supplier from the approved List.

Regards
Jomy Abraham

Hi Simon,

Acualy most of the company we have as a vendor does not have SQF certification. They go through 3rd party audits. Some of them also do not send audit report saying that its a confedential material. They just send a written statements on the companies letterhead that they have HACCP in place. They just send a score of 3rd party audit and score summary like


maintenance of food safety 180

sanitation and cleaning 190

Maintenance of prerequisite program 195



but from this poiints no body can tell where they lost their points.....

I am having really a tough time... as most of the vendors we have are from long time... and my company had not asked such documents from vendor in past.. i joind the company few months ago.. and now that i am trying to get this info and getting such kind of answers..... I know i am not the only one who faced this problem but i am also bound by deadlines for SQF audit..



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#5 Charles.C

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:00 PM

Dear Dave,

I am having really a tough time... as most of the vendors we have are from long time... and my company had not asked such documents from vendor in past.. i joind the company few months ago.. and now that i am trying to get this info and getting such kind of answers..... I know i am not the only one who faced this problem but i am also bound by deadlines for SQF audit..


I sympathise, have had some experience of this situation (but not SQF) before. I used 2 stages, initially with gentle (ie polite) request to managing director, eg current requirements for our approval to XYZ standard demands that our suppliers provide us with abcd documentation ( stating your necessary kind of input, best illustrated with an example IMEX, [minimises wriggle factor :smile: ]). Add time frame for response (eg 1 month)plus promise to give full assistance in case any difficulties then wait. IMEX this will work for the decent / more organised suppliers and not for the "don't cares" or simply unorganised (unsafe ??). There is a temptation to ask for un-necessary data, it is critical to mimimise / simplify one's request as far as possible IMO.

Some responses rapidly appeared but were technically useless. These were immediately followed up by phone to relevant QA (who normally were immediately "burdened with replying" of course) with suitable expressions of appreciation for response followed by an explanation of difficulty. Results then achieved were across the whole knowledge spectrum as you can expect. Occasionally, extraordinary patience is required. :smile:

After 1 month I upped the pressure one more (written) notch for non-respondents, eg have noticed that we hv not yet received a response to our request of ...... Please be informed that we are obliged to include a list of approved suppliers for our shortly to be submitted application for certification to XYZ. This requires our having documentation as requested ... on file. Please act accordingly.

I then allowed 1 more week after which you hv to make some decisions.(eg telephone calls for final demands)

The tricky (and personally dangerous part) IMHO is what latitude you actually have vis-a-vis yr own company / senior management. I had backing to simply eject people who didn't respond (or were proven totally incapable) in above scheme (initially 50% response, ultimately 80% pass after considerable sweat, coaching and deliberation :smile: ). But, if management are actually happy with the current status quo and other circumstances are dictating the new action (eg Group Policy), very careful treading indeed is required. This depends on the exact situation.

Rgds / Charles.C

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#6 DAVE84

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:48 PM

so basically if supplier does not provide either HACCP or 3rd party audit report. Siply remove them from list. Correct?



#7 Charles.C

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 01:40 AM

Dear Dave,

It’s probably a mixture of case-by-case/SQF’s specific requirements/yr-yr Company’s own criteria ?

Some (whole) fish suppliers’ concept of food safety is to make sure their nets aren’t broken. :biggrin: Suppliers of factory manufactured food additives clearly a different scenario. Nonetheless, both sources had to mutually agree / document with receiver regarding appropriate product quality / safety specifications but the additional requirements varied (eg up to the levels in jomy abrahams's post). Nonetheless, no compliance with minimum requirement > no listing approval.

I think for most standards the full details of Supplier Approval/performance rating are risk based / left to the receiver but SQF I don’t know.

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#8 DAVE84

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 03:00 AM

Well in my case i do not think that my managment will support me to simply eject the suppliers who do not want to share their documents. Probably i will think of some method which will atleast help me bit. I will sahre the idea as soon as i will finalise...



#9 Jomy Abraham

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 05:30 AM

Loop hole

1. If the supplier is not ISO/HACCP certified, accept based on micro and chemical analysis. Fix a schedule say quarterly random brands..
2. ISO/HACCP is not required, if the products are fresh from the open markets like fresh fish, cash purchases from supermarkets. But incorporate it in your hazard analysis.
3. ISO/HACCP is not required, if you are purchasing from your sister concern.

Management systems will be effective only if the management supports it ( Management Commitment- atleast 40%)

Regards
Jomy Abraham


Well in my case i do not think that my managment will support me to simply eject the suppliers who do not want to share their documents. Probably i will think of some method which will atleast help me bit. I will sahre the idea as soon as i will finalise...



#10 Charles.C

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:49 AM

Dear Dave,

Well in my case i do not think that my managment will support me to simply eject the suppliers who do not want to share their documents.

I assume in yr case, you are being supplied from a "defined" business entity.

I suggest you have a look at SQF2000, para. 6.10.1 - 6.10.5

Some flexibility exists but yes, you may have a significant problem.

Rgds / Charles.C

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#11 fstRicky

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 07:14 AM

I was just like Dave,

I am currently taking the approach that Jomy and Charles have put across. A well designed and targeted questionnaire helps a lot as you gather the information you want. It can be complicated with HACCP plans when the supplier has got strict document sharing policy. you can still send them a form/question at least asking for their CCPs and how they control them.

Ricky



#12 Tony-C

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 08:03 AM

I was just like Dave,

I am currently taking the approach that Jomy and Charles have put across. A well designed and targeted questionnaire helps a lot as you gather the information you want. It can be complicated with HACCP plans when the supplier has got strict document sharing policy. you can still send them a form/question at least asking for their CCPs and how they control them.

Ricky


Agreed. The amount of information you will need is related to:
- the risk of the material supplied
- the supplier history
- the checks conducted on incoming materials

I would normally have a policy that a critical supplier would need to be certified to a recognised GFSI standard and supply a copy of the audit report then deal with exceptions as they occur.

Where suppliers are reluctant to give HACCP information, I would ask that food safety controls are included in the material specification.

Regards,

Tony

#13 George @ Safefood 360°

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:57 PM

Hi Dave84

I think you have received some excellent advice on a difficult area.

You could always call the bluff of the most difficult suppliers and inform them that you intend conducting a full two-day on site AUDIT. You could then mention that this could be avoided if they simply fill in the questionnairePosted Image

The fact that some of these suppliers are long standing it is likely they have a good history of supply which can be reasonably used as a basis for approval (assuming you can back this up). You would need to couple this with an assessment of risk of the materials and quantities supplied. This assessment may force you to delist some of these suppliers - an action that may yield the elusive questionnaires and supporting documents.

George.



#14 SQFconsultant

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 03:03 PM

Recently during developing approved supplier program i triggered one problem, where suppliers sends a summary of their HACCP prgram. Which says that how they built program, how they conduct training, how oftenly they provide refreshment training and at the end its says that according to company policy it can not be shared with any one, if we want to review it we have to go on site. Also in thirt party audit document they just send audit score. Is that sufficient documentation to meet SQF requirments? or i must have their HACCP plan or full audit report? or both?


Thanks



A score/grade by itself is not sufficient documentation to meet SQF requirements, nor should it be for that matter to meet your requirements as the vendors customer.

We just completed a SQF consulting project where the client had been doing business with many of their vendors for over thirty years but had never once stepped inside their facilities nor had a copy of an audit on file for them - what an eye opener it was for them to see the audits. Some of those vendors are no longer vendors because of this request.
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#15 Tony-C

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:16 PM

We just completed a SQF consulting project where the client had been doing business with many of their vendors for over thirty years but had never once stepped inside their facilities nor had a copy of an audit on file for them.


Consultants are always happy if they think they have found a problem – agreed no! :thumbup: yes

But if your business has been supplied for 30 years without a problem ? ! :dunno:




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