11 replies to this topic

[dan]

We are producing a gluten free pancake mix. I need to establish limits for Total Plate Count, Coliform, e. coli, Mold, Yeast, Listeria Monocytogenes, and Salmonella.

Please understand, neither I, nor anyone else in this company has any experience, or education of this nature. While reasearching the topic (google) I came accross a text, Compendium of methods for the microbiological examination of foods.

Can anyone speak to the value of this text, or any other, that will give me some micro standards for the mix I stated, as well as other similar, dry mixes?

[Charles.C]

Dear Dan,

This is a brilliant (heavy) reference book on microbiological methods / concepts although should be due for another edition soon (current is 2001 i think). Not specifically intended for standards although it does contain a lot of guidelines.

In fact i don't think there are any books which specifically answer standards in a global sense. each country usually has it's own collection of regulatory limits for a range of products. Some countries like USA, UK, Australia tend to put large chunks on the net (somewhere), others very little.

ICMSF did publish a compendium of standards approx 1980 based on reviewed published values which were analysed to present commercially attainable limits ( a Codex principle).This remains a classic reference, is on-line and already uploaded on this forum.

It is sometimes necessary to look for organisations specialising in certain products who have developed their own standards, eg baking.

A first step is often recommended as making some measurements on yr own product to get an idea of the range of values.
And a parallel step is often google. If you google yr present requirement / product name, some potential sources are immediately evident.
Next, tentatively compare results of each of last 2 paragraphs.
Of course, zero tolerance pathogens hv obvious limits.

Any baking people here may know a specific answer ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[DAVE84]

Hey Dan,


here is the link which can help you a bit. you will not find your specific product. But there is a category of dry instant mixes, which is close to your porduct. I also work for the similar company as yours but unfortunately we do not test our product for micro....

www.icmsf.iit.edu/pdf/icmsf2.pdf

But as you have support in your company for micro testing. Take general sample and watch how much microbial load you are getting. According to microbial load you set a limit. to validate your micro limit what you can do is.

For ex you are getting TPC of 10000000 cfu/ml. even it seems too high you can make it your limit, but you need to proove that cooking the pancake according to your direction provided on the pouch will bring this level to safe level. To achieve that....

inoculate your sample upto that limit (in dry form). Than take a sample from that. After taking sample prepare the product from rest of the powder as directed on your label. After cooking take the sample of cooked product.


Now send the dry powder and cooked sample. Watch for the result how much population reduction you are getting. In your results you should not have any postive results for zero tolerance bacteria in cooked product. That validates that after cooking your product will be safe....


currently this is not mandatory but i think soon it will mandatory............. (not sure when)



Hope this will help you

[Charles.C]

Dear Dave,

you should not have any postive results for zero tolerance bacteria in cooked product

And I expect, especially from a regulatory aspect, in a marketed, uncooked pancake mix also ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[DAVE84]

I doubt that it is always possible to have negative results in uncooked product (powder). Because it is made of wheat flour and some other raw ingredients. As i know wheat flour sometimes might be positive for salmonella. Currently there are no mandated microbial standards for wheat flour by FDA. I will not be surprised if i will see any of the powder mix positive for salomella.



Regards

Dhaval

[Charles.C]

Dear Dan,

here is one example for you -

 panckae mix spec..pdf   16.5KB   254 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

[DAVE84]

IF we see in the specification. It says in color and flavor, match to standards.

What does it mean?

1. We cook control product with the test product and compare?
2. they have some written standards that how does pancake looks like?
3. When we cook pancake it tastes good?

Please clear my doubt....

[Cathie Ling]

Hello!

Does anyone have microbial specification of liquid pancake premix which only cooking is required? 

Thank you.

[Gabriela Chavez]

I have the same problem. I can't find the micro specification for those products.

Can you solve your problem? Please let me know.

[Scampi]

The manufacturer has to set the standard for their finished product for these product categories, there is no defined limits other than listeria which needs to be negative  (should go without saying)

 

You should determine values that are REASONABLE for your product (given the raw flour portion (unless your using heat treated flour and raw egg (unless using liquid pasteurized))) for total coliform, salmonella (which ideally is always negative) and e-coli

 

HOWEVER, your product should have cooking instructions that have been validated.  That means ship your finished good to a lab where they can analyze raw vs cooked under conditions similar to the average consumer of your product to determine that the cooking step is sufficient to render your product safe for consumption

[Charles.C]

Antique thread.

[SHQuality]

Since this is an oft-recurring questions, I'll add my two cents in the hope it will help someone and stop repeated questions.

 

I would calculate the expected bacterial load of the raw uncooked mix by calculating it from the information you have about the ingredients.

If, for example, an ingredient has a max. total plate count of 10000 cfu/g and it makes up 50% of your recipe, it will contribute a max of 5000 cfu/g to your recipe.

Do that calculation for each relevant microbial parameter for all ingredients and you've got a reasonably accurate count.

Just make sure that Salmonella and Listeria are absent and thus not detectable in your product at all.