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#1 mind over matter

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 06:09 PM

According to Waterless.com, "Urine itself is normally sterile, 0% bacterial, unless one has a kidney infection. Fecal matter is 95% bacterial, and may include pathogens."

Yes - urine is dangerous only when you have kidney infections (e.g. UTI, bladder lining, etc.) In these cases (which are very common) the pathogens are very infective (hence there prevalence).

Anyway there are waterless urinals in the malls but one can still smell the offensive odor. Unlike the conventional water flushing urinals, all you have to do is to flush it after use, then problem solved. You can find dozens of companies selling waterless urinals through a simple google search. They claims that said system not only saves water but also treats the urine and helps declog the sewer line.

As food safety practitioner, would you recommend installing waterless urinals in food manufacturing toilets?

*Edit: DISCLAIMER: I'm not connected with the company that produces this waterless urinal treatment system in any way, shape or form and make no recommendations on its value or effectiveness.


Edited by mind over matter, 22 October 2011 - 06:34 PM.


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#2 Zeeshan

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:04 AM

According to Waterless.com, "Urine itself is normally sterile, 0% bacterial, unless one has a kidney infection. Fecal matter is 95% bacterial, and may include pathogens."

Yes - urine is dangerous only when you have kidney infections (e.g. UTI, bladder lining, etc.) In these cases (which are very common) the pathogens are very infective (hence there prevalence).

Anyway there are waterless urinals in the malls but one can still smell the offensive odor. Unlike the conventional water flushing urinals, all you have to do is to flush it after use, then problem solved. You can find dozens of companies selling waterless urinals through a simple google search. They claims that said system not only saves water but also treats the urine and helps declog the sewer line.

As food safety practitioner, would you recommend installing waterless urinals in food manufacturing toilets?

*Edit: DISCLAIMER: I'm not connected with the company that produces this waterless urinal treatment system in any way, shape or form and make no recommendations on its value or effectiveness.


According to wikipedia:

"The kidneys extract the soluble wastes from the bloodstream, as well as excess water, sugars, and a variety of other compounds. The resulting urine contains high concentrations of urea, chemicals and other substances, including toxins."

"Urine is sterile until it reaches the urethra where the epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram negative rods and cocci.[4] Subsequent to elimination from the body, urine can acquire strong odors due to bacterial action,[citation needed] and in particular the release of asphyxiating ammonia from the breakdown of urea."

"Urine is not toxic.[8] However, being a waste product, it does contain compounds undesirable to the body and can be irritating to skin and eyes. "

Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine
[4] ^ Michael T. Madigan; Thomas D. Brock (2009). Brock biology of microorganisms. Pearson/Benjamin Cummings. ISBN 978-0-13-232460-1. http://books.google....d=12aWQAAACAAJ. Retrieved 10 September 2011. [8] ^ Urine therapy. Vanderbilt.edu (1992-10-16). Retrieved on 2011-04-27.

Based on above information which seem logical on the basis of general academic scientific knowledge and personal observation, facts could be concluded as:

Urine is an undesirable and potentially harmful substance hence not using water for washing out body and area, may raise severe issues of personnel and environmental hygiene that may lead to nonconforming situation to food safety.


Additionally If you are certified or are going to be certified as Halal then this MAY lead towards a significant nonconformity due to severe un-hygienic practice as per Islamic Law.

Regards:
M.Zeeshan

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#3 Jim E.

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:18 PM

We have installed waterless urinals in our facility. No issues with smells, cleaned regularly by janitorial staff. Also there is a chemical unit you install in the top that waste passes through and I believe this helps keep smells down. The chemical units have to be replaced on a regular basis or the smells do come forward. Auditors have always approved of them and never said unacceptable.



#4 mind over matter

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:01 AM

According to wikipedia:

"The kidneys extract the soluble wastes from the bloodstream, as well as excess water, sugars, and a variety of other compounds. The resulting urine contains high concentrations of urea, chemicals and other substances, including toxins."

"Urine is sterile until it reaches the urethra where the epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram negative rods and cocci.[4] Subsequent to elimination from the body, urine can acquire strong odors due to bacterial action,[citation needed] and in particular the release of asphyxiating ammonia from the breakdown of urea."

"Urine is not toxic.[8] However, being a waste product, it does contain compounds undesirable to the body and can be irritating to skin and eyes. "

Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine
[4] ^ Michael T. Madigan; Thomas D. Brock (2009). Brock biology of microorganisms. Pearson/Benjamin Cummings. ISBN 978-0-13-232460-1. http://books.google....d=12aWQAAACAAJ. Retrieved 10 September 2011. [8] ^ Urine therapy. Vanderbilt.edu (1992-10-16). Retrieved on 2011-04-27.

Based on above information which seem logical on the basis of general academic scientific knowledge and personal observation, facts could be concluded as:

Urine is an undesirable and potentially harmful substance hence not using water for washing out body and area, may raise severe issues of personnel and environmental hygiene that may lead to nonconforming situation to food safety.


Additionally If you are certified or are going to be certified as Halal then this MAY lead towards a significant nonconformity due to severe un-hygienic practice as per Islamic Law.

Regards:
M.Zeeshan

Thanks for the very informative post, Zeeshan. I agree that urine is essentially a waste product, the stuff from our bloodstream that was discarded by our kidneys. However, according to Skeptic's Dictionary:

Urine therapy refers to one of several uses of urine to prevent or cure sickness, to enhance beauty, or to cleanse one's bowels. Most devotees drink the midstream of their morning urine. Some prefer it straight and steaming hot; others mix it with juice or serve it over fruit. Some prefer a couple of urine drops mixed with a tablespoon of water applied sublingually several times a day. Some wash themselves in their own golden fluid to improve their skin quality. Many modern Japanese women are said to engage in urine bathing. The truly daring use their own urine as an enema. Urine is not quite the breakfast of champions, but it is the elixir of choice of a number of holy men in India where drinking urine has been practiced for thousands of years. The drink is also the preferred pick-me-up for a growing number of naturopaths and other advocates of "nature cures." The main attractions of this ultimate home brew are its cost, availability and portability. It is much cheaper than that other "water of life," whiskey (uisge beatha), which also has been hailed for its medicinal qualities. Unlike whiskey, however, urine is always available, everyone carries a supply at all times, and, for most people, there are no intoxicating side effects. Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine. The same can't be said for good single malt such as Highland Park or a good whiskey such as Black Bush.


http://www.skepdic.com/urine.html

I have also found a lot of sites supporting this idea. So, what's the general consensus among food safety experts from IFSQN?

Edited by mind over matter, 03 December 2011 - 08:02 AM.





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