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Non-conformance related to BRC Management Review


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Mulyana

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:14 AM

Dear All...

How are you...

I was audited by BRC auditor, regarding the audit result, they are find not conforming report :

they found that some item of management review don't mention such as Incident and development in scientific information associate with the products.

what kind the report ? please help me ?

Thank you.
Agus Mulyana



mind over matter

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 03:06 PM

Dear All...

How are you...

I was audited by BRC auditor, regarding the audit result, they are find not conforming report :

they found that some item of management review don't mention such as Incident and development in scientific information associate with the products.

what kind the report ? please help me ?

Thank you.
Agus Mulyana


I'm not sure if I completely understand your question. What do you mean by "incident"? If you were referring to nonconformity, then it can be an input to the management review. I'm not familiar with BRC, but from the context of ISO 22000, first part of the review is determination of the state of your managment system. This is done by reviewing how the system is behaving, which is done by exploring items such as results of audits (both internal and external audits), customer feedback (possitive or negative), process perfromance and product conformity (KPI?), status of corrective actions (Are they being handled in a timely manner?), follow-up actions from previous management reviews, changes that could affect your management system etc etc

Once you have determined the state of the system, then make recommendations for improvement. This is the second part, determining where you want to go from where you are. For example, determine action plans, resource needed to accomplish those action plans etc.

Also, I don't know what you mean by "development in scientific information associate with the products," and if this was addressed already in my explanation above.
So if this doesn't answer your question, would you please clarify?

As I mentioned earlier, I am not familiar about BRC, so it would be better if you post here the specific requirements for management review under BRC.

Edited by mind over matter, 07 December 2011 - 03:08 PM.


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trubertq

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:29 PM

Hi Augus,

During my audit I discovered that my auditor had a certain agenda that he wished to be used for the management review meetings. I will attach it for reference.

Basically all the points on the agenda must be touched upon during the review meeting.

Withy regard to the two specific cases you mention. I presume that the auditor means that you must review any incidents which occurred during the year regarding food safety. perhaps you had CCP non-conformances, or a recall or something like that? If so they must be reviewed during the review meeting and this review minuted.

Regarding the developments in scientific information refgarding the product, all this is , is a review of any new legislation/ scientific advances etc, which may have taken place during the year, which may affect your product.As part of your Senior Management committment, you have to be checking this every so often during the year any way, and then this is alos reviewed at the review meeting. For example, the critical limit level of one heavy metal was changed for our product in 2011. so we reflected that in our Management review Meeting. If no changes have taken place then just record that.


I hope this helps

Trudy




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Mulyana

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 04:24 AM

Thank you for your attention ...

information you provide is very helpful at all, but I need an explanation from you a few things I own are less understood, examples are:


1. Incidents? whether the difference in accidents.

2. Developments of scientific information associated with the product in the range? what does this mean? production departments which made ​​this report generally?

3. AOB? what does this mean?

Thank you for your time,

Agus



mind over matter

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 01:08 PM

agmuyana,

Can you post here the exact audit finding? I mean the statement of nonconformity reported by the audior.



mind over matter

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 01:24 PM

Hi Augus,

During my audit I discovered that my auditor had a certain agenda that he wished to be used for the management review meetings. I will attach it for reference.

Basically all the points on the agenda must be touched upon during the review meeting.

Withy regard to the two specific cases you mention. I presume that the auditor means that you must review any incidents which occurred during the year regarding food safety. perhaps you had CCP non-conformances, or a recall or something like that? If so they must be reviewed during the review meeting and this review minuted.

Regarding the developments in scientific information refgarding the product, all this is , is a review of any new legislation/ scientific advances etc, which may have taken place during the year, which may affect your product.As part of your Senior Management committment, you have to be checking this every so often during the year any way, and then this is alos reviewed at the review meeting. For example, the critical limit level of one heavy metal was changed for our product in 2011. so we reflected that in our Management review Meeting. If no changes have taken place then just record that.


I hope this helps

Trudy





Just hitting the bolded part. The term "minuted" or "minutes" implies that Management Review is achomplished through a meeting. Under ISO 22000, there is no requirement for Management Review to be a meeting, so no minutes can be required ...unless... something in your documentation states that minutes are maintained. If you do not use a meeting format to meet the requirement, or if you choose not to maintain meeting minutes, then what ever record you choose, must show that all of the requirements for management review have been met.

I'm not sure if there is a specific requirement for Management Review "meeting" under BRC, but I doubt it. Can you post here the exact BRC requirement for management review?

Edited by mind over matter, 08 December 2011 - 01:26 PM.


trubertq

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 02:37 PM

Just hitting the bolded part. The term "minuted" or "minutes" implies that Management Review is achomplished through a meeting. Under ISO 22000, there is no requirement for Management Review to be a meeting, so no minutes can be required ...unless... something in your documentation states that minutes are maintained. If you do not use a meeting format to meet the requirement, or if you choose not to maintain meeting minutes, then what ever record you choose, must show that all of the requirements for management review have been met.

I'm not sure if there is a specific requirement for Management Review "meeting" under BRC, but I doubt it. Can you post here the exact BRC requirement for management review?



There is a requirement for a 'minuted meeting'........ otherwise we wouldn't be doing it, cos it takes half a day!!Posted Image


1.1.1 Management review meetingsattended by senior management are taken at leastannually, to review performance against the Standard and the objectives set in 1.1.2.The review process includes:

· Previous management reviewaction plans and time frames

· Results of internal, secondparty or third party audits

· Customer complaints, andresults of other customer performance reviews

· Incidents, corrective actions,out of specification results and non-conforming material

· Review of the management of theHACCP system

· Resource requirement

Records of the meeting(s) aredocumented and used to revise the objectives.

The decisions andactions agreed within the review process is effectively communicated to appropriate staff, and actions implemented withinagreedtimescales


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trubertq

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 02:44 PM

Thank you for your attention ...

information you provide is very helpful at all, but I need an explanation from you a few things I own are less understood, examples are:


1. Incidents? whether the difference in accidents. An Incident is any thing that happens which may affect the safety legality or quality of your product... they can range from the trivial, to the very serious, all must be recorded and reviewed. Workplace accidents involving Personnel usually come under Health and Safety rather than Food Safety, unless the accident directly impacts on the product.

2. Developments of scientific information associated with the product in the range? what does this mean? production departments which made ​​this report generally? Usually the Quality Department in conjunction with whatever regulatory authority you are under looks after this. Generally there is a data base regarding legislation published for Food processing

3. AOB? what does this mean? This just means 'Any Other Business'... issues other than those covered on the agenda

Thank you for your time,

Agus


I hope this helps you Agus, and sorry for misspelling your name on the earlier post

Trudy

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mind over matter

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:03 PM

There is a requirement for a 'minuted meeting'........ otherwise we wouldn't be doing it, cos it takes half a day!!Posted Image


1.1.1 Management review meetingsattended by senior management are taken at leastannually, to review performance against the Standard and the objectives set in 1.1.2.The review process includes:

· Previous management reviewaction plans and time frames

· Results of internal, secondparty or third party audits

· Customer complaints, andresults of other customer performance reviews

· Incidents, corrective actions,out of specification results and non-conforming material

· Review of the management of theHACCP system

· Resource requirement

Records of the meeting(s) aredocumented and used to revise the objectives.

The decisions andactions agreed within the review process is effectively communicated to appropriate staff, and actions implemented withinagreedtimescales


If this is the exact statement for Management Review requirement under BRC, then I see that the word "meeting" is used. Thanks!

Under ISO 22000, there is no requirement for a meeting per see. Some companies post highlights and KPIs to a wiki and have management review from their iPads in bed on a weekend. There are a lot of methods.

Specifically relating to a "meeting" requirement under BRC... How do multi-national companies conduct management review? I mean they would need airline tickets, hotel bookings, etc for a face-to-face meeting. Will it suffice to accomplish Management Review using technology e.g. email, Skype, etc?

Please undulge my curiosity...

Edited by mind over matter, 08 December 2011 - 08:05 PM.


Mulyana

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

agmuyana,

Can you post here the exact audit finding? I mean the statement of nonconformity reported by the audior.




Dear mind over..

this is the minor non conformity my last BRC audit.

From verified Management review on 25/06/2011 found that some items of management review don’t mention such as :

1) incident and

2) development in scientific information associate with the products.

Thanks

Agus M



Mulyana

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:27 AM

If this is the exact statement for Management Review requirement under BRC, then I see that the word "meeting" is used. Thanks!

Under ISO 22000, there is no requirement for a meeting per see. Some companies post highlights and KPIs to a wiki and have management review from their iPads in bed on a weekend. There are a lot of methods.

Specifically relating to a "meeting" requirement under BRC... How do multi-national companies conduct management review? I mean they would need airline tickets, hotel bookings, etc for a face-to-face meeting. Will it suffice to accomplish Management Review using technology e.g. email, Skype, etc?

Please undulge my curiosity...



Yes I am agree with you, if we are in small factory I think we should meet with the boss, and talk about our company, but in big company we must change the system also the procedure for acomplish the management review requirement.

we can change the system.


mind over matter

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 03:47 PM

Dear mind over..

this is the minor non conformity my last BRC audit.

From verified Management review on 25/06/2011 found that some items of management review don’t mention such as :

1) incident and

2) development in scientific information associate with the products.

Thanks

Agus M


Thank you for posting the text of the exact NC statement as they appear on the audit report..

Now identify the root cause(s). The root cause(s) of some minor NCs are, sometimes, obvious and when they are easy to fix, a simple correction plan (e.g. just mention 'incident' etc etc)is sufficient, along with follow-up for verification that it was effective. However, most of the time, the root cause is hidden. It takes some detective work to dig it out. You can use some quality tools such as brainstorming, 5 why's, fishbone diagram, pareto chart,etc etc for this purpose. When I was in quality and food safety field my favorite and the simplest techniques is 5 why's. Basically, if you ask why enough times you can find the cause to any problem. Often, 5 is the magic number, but not always. It could take more or less. Please note that sometimes you may not be the best person in the organization to solve the problem.

trubertq gave you a good advice and he posted the prescribed inputs and outputs to Management Review listed in the BRC standard. Do you have a copy of the BRC standard?

If you have further queries, post them here. The advice you'll get from the IFSQN members who have been helping people here for years, will be invaluable to you. They have helped me a lot when I was in food industry.

Edited by mind over matter, 09 December 2011 - 04:08 PM.


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mind over matter

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:05 PM

Yes I am agree with you, if we are in small factory I think we should meet with the boss, and talk about our company, but in big company we must change the system also the procedure for acomplish the management review requirement.

we can change the system.

I have no issues with the idea of Management Review meetings per se. If they work and serve the purpose (improving things), I'm all for them. It's just that too many people think they're required under ISO 22000 and don't know that there are alternatives. I just learned here that there is a requirement to accomplish Management Review through meetings, and therefore, maintaining minutes per se. That's why I am really curious about how multi-national companies conduct management review.

Edited by mind over matter, 10 December 2011 - 02:25 PM.


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Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:08 PM

Point 1 is reporting on actions related to any product/food safety incidents but I think point 2 is probably causing you the most confusion (?).
Basically you need some sort of system where you get the latest information relevant to your industry and any new developments that you need to think about. For example, we have a Regulatory Manager that subscribes to websites/databases and is a member of industry societies (as are other Managers). They pick up information about new legislation that is fed back to the company to act on (e.g. at Management Review).
If you don't have a full time Regulatory Manager you could do the same thing with subscriptions for newsletters/websites/databases etc. You could also think about using a consultant but make sure they have a very good understanding of your products and industry.






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