16 replies to this topic

[Ruhama]

Dear All

 

I had a visit from one of my potential customers CGC from Japan yesterday, so they suggested that we should wear masks while processing. They said that professional.

 

What's your view on this?

[John Moreton]

depends on the risk, on the product, although its not an expensive change to your procedures and it minimises risks in general.

We wear snoods when packaging and manufacturing of vitamins and food supplements and face masks when blending powders.

 

I would comply with the customers requirements as it is not unreasonable.

[Mr. Incognito]

What is your product?  In the three factories I've worked in nobody had to wear masks. 

[John Moreton]

we don't have to wear the masks in most cases (unless we have employees with beards) however a customer suggested it to us and as the cost was very little.

 

We chose to implement it as it improves and supports our hygiene procedure and none of our employees have a problem with it.

 

we manufacture and package vitamins and food supplements from raw powders.

[Mr. Incognito]

I guess you can see it that way but it does add cost and for what level of protection?

 

I don't see the benefit, other than a worker with a minor cold cough, everything is cost v/s risk and in the end the company wants to make money.  The cost of something may look small today but what about 10 years from now after you've bought all of these masks.  And what if you concede and buy a mask that they don't deem to be the appropriate one?

 

If they are a major customer and you want to spend the money then go for it but it's not really the "professional" thing everywhere.

[Marshenko]

I've seen it both ways - you really need to assess risk as it pertains to your product.  At a dry-cured deli meat facility, we had employees handling RTE product wear face masks, seemed like an easy way to at least mitigate another source of potential product contamination.  But, deli meats are especially high risk...

[Ruhama]

What is your product?  In the three factories I've worked in nobody had to wear masks. 

My product is fish (Trout)

[Ruhama]

Dear All

 

Thanks for your commetnts. me too I don't see as professional to wear masks, so now I will be able to tell management that there is no need for wearing that.

[Charles.C]

Dear Ruhama.

 

It is unfortunately a well-known business norm in Asia that Japanese seafood customers invariably expect supplier processing lines to look like a collection of would-be astronauts. The (debatable) reason is self-evident but IMEX is usually iron-clad.

 

I predict you are about to lose one potential customer but i hope you will prove me wrong.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Ruhama]

Dear Ruhama.

 

It is unfortunately a well-known business norm in Asia that Japanese seafood customers invariably expect supplier processing lines to look like a collection of would-be astronauts. The (debatable) reason is self-evident but IMEX is usually iron-clad.

 

I predict you are about to lose one potential customer but i hope you will prove me wrong.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Dear Charles C

 

You say I am about to lose my potential customer because I am not doing what they want me to do?

[Mash]

So far staff is complying with the personal hygiene procedure and sickness/illness policy, there is no need to wear a mask, i have been working with fish processing indusrty which was EU approved, we dont wear any mask there :-) 

[John Moreton]

when you say masks are we just talking about the small mouth\beard mask or full on contamination style masks ?

[Mr. Incognito]

Dear Charles C

 

You say I am about to lose my potential customer because I am not doing what they want me to do?

 

Well there is a chance they will go elsewhere because your not doing something they want.  You could have a policy that if you are running their product that personnel are required to wear face masks.

 

They can take their business elsewhere which is why I said that if they are going to be a significant customer, in the terms or volume of product, you may just want to acquiesce (ha! how often do you get to use a word like that...) to their request.

 

Just because a majority of people agree with you doesn't mean the customer will.

[Snookie]

 

Dear Charles C

 

You say I am about to lose my potential customer because I am not doing what they want me to do?

 

 

 

I agree with Charles.  Customers are not usually flexible when they want something they deem a food safety issue.  While I would question a number of issues regarding the efficacy that is often not what customers want to hear.

[Slab]

Your customer's reasoning is as so;

 

(given the Asian market for the love of things raw)

You are manufacturing a raw finished product for commercial/retail distribution, which of course may or may not be handled appropriately in regards to your "handling instructions".  Many human transmitted pathogens are highly resistant to heat.  E.g. Hep A requires a 185 deg F (85 deg C) internal temp.  That would be the extreme example, but even other nasty pathogens such as E. Coli, Shigella, Salmonella, and Staph A can reside if not properly handled.  

You could screen employees for pathogens for proof, but I believe your potential customer has already offered you a very reasonable and affordable solution. Cost to you about 0.01 to 0.012 USD per unit.  

It's not the best solution as, Snookie has pointed out, but it's what the customer is asking for. And honestly it's not a bad practice. 

[ajrfrank]

Face masks or snoods are recommended when handling fish to avoid risk of S. Aureus mostly. 

 

You should check your national legislation on BPM and verify if it is required or not. 

For example mexican law requires the use of face mask and central american legislation requires you to make a risk assesment first.

 

IMO you should use masks.

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

 

As noted post #12, the terminology can vary somewhat. IMEX the minimum objective is a simple mouth/nose covering, the maximum is more like clean room operator, or more.

I guess this is a (medium-grade) operational example of what the OP is referring -

 clothing.pdf   27.86KB   15 downloads

Then again -

 face mask.pdf   29.1KB   27 downloads

For customers, the requirement almost certainly represents a frequent example of “double standards” but  is IMEX a common business reality in certain situations / locations. You can add it to jewelry, perfume, cosmetics issues etc except that the implied hygiene factors  are here potentially more “sensitive”?. And also the practical inconveniences involved.

 

Here are some EC examples ( BRC, FAO, UK ). No mention of  masks.

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...indpost&p=62779

http://www.ifsqn.com...indpost&p=40046

http://www.ifsqn.com...indpost&p=35226

 

here is an EC customer example which I expect is by no means globally unique –

http://www.ifsqn.com...ge-3#entry58870

 

I don’t recall ever seeing any official validations / explanations of  such requirements although something like food for astronauts  might be a valid reasoning ? Or perhaps, and my apologies if anyone offended, from areas where oral-fecal problems considered to be of high risk, eg endemic ?.

 

Rgds / Charles.C