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#1 CaliforniaFS

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 08:53 PM

Do you require a hand sanitizer unit in the employee bathroom?

 

Besides the units installed by processing areas.

TIA,

:mwah:



#2 Charles.C

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 04:00 AM

Do you require a hand sanitizer unit in the employee bathroom?

 

Besides the units installed by processing areas.

TIA,

:mwah:

 

Dear California,

 

I believe it's called soap.

 

Although the availability/necessity may depend on, ahem, location. A question of risk assessment.

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#3 CaliforniaFS

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 04:32 AM

Hi Charles,
I have soap in the bathroom. Not hand sanitizer. The gfsi scheme I am using does not specify bathrooms only processing areas. I was curious if anyone else had both soap and hand sanitizer in the restroom.
TIA



#4 Charles.C

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

Hi Charles,
I have soap in the bathroom. Not hand sanitizer. The gfsi scheme I am using does not specify bathrooms only processing areas. I was curious if anyone else had both soap and hand sanitizer in the restroom.
TIA

Dear california,

 

Not sure as to the typical US bathroom experience. :smile:

 

All the employee bathrooms i have encountered use liquid soap which contains a sanitizer (probably similar to hospitals).There are a few well-established ingredients in use in food processors. I recall USDA had some interesting classifications regarding them.

 

How much "sanitization" is actually achieved i don't know, probably more of a microbiostatic in truth. Easy to check with the uv illumination method / micro.data. Assuming you have a target that is. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 CaliforniaFS

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:43 AM

Hi Charles,
I have soap in the bathroom. Not hand sanitizer. The gfsi scheme I am using does not specify bathrooms only processing areas. I was curious if anyone else had both soap and hand sanitizer in the restroom.
TIA



#6 Charles.C

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:41 AM

Hi Charles,
I have soap in the bathroom. Not hand sanitizer. The gfsi scheme I am using does not specify bathrooms only processing areas. I was curious if anyone else had both soap and hand sanitizer in the restroom.
TIA

Dear California,

 

Bar soap, Liquid soap or ?

 

My guess is the options only kick in with liquid soap. triclosan is a famous ingredient example but there are others. Not new, at least 2 decades !

as a random example see -

http://aem.asm.org/c...t/76/2/394.long

 

If you are using liquid soap, i hope you do know what is in it. food hygiene 101. Regardless of GFSI. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#7 philip

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:35 PM

As stated, it is a risk assessment that is needed.

What is the outcome if people don't sanitise their hands?  It is a different conclusion between a flour miller and a sandwich manufacturer.

Both require clean hands but the definition and (verification measures (in the case of the sandwich manufacturer) will be quite different



#8 Charles.C

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:38 PM

As stated, it is a risk assessment that is needed.

What is the outcome if people don't sanitise their hands?  It is a different conclusion between a flour miller and a sandwich manufacturer.

Both require clean hands but the definition and (verification measures (in the case of the sandwich manufacturer) will be quite different

 

Dear philip,

 

I agree that risk consequences may vary with worker function.

 

Unfortunately, i fear that general standards such as you mention simply do not exist although one can occasionally find specific expectations for sensitive products like chilled RTE sandwiches, eg routine nil detection of COP S.aureus.

 

Can you reference any accessible links ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#9 Snookie

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:59 PM

By sanitizer, am taking that you mean the alcohol(usually) based sanitizers. I have seen facilities that have both soap and hand sanitizer in the bathrooms. Personally I am not a big advocate of hand sanitizers to begin with, but understand them in processing, but not in the bathrooms. I prefer good old fashioned soap and water.

One of the most fun audits I ever had was two lovely gentlemen from the RAF (Royal Air Force). Oh my gosh they did a thorough audit but they kept us all laughing all the way through and made it painless. They both hated sanitizers and thought they were a feel good but useless item. Am not sure I would go with useless, but I do agree that soap and water is more effective.


Edited by Snookie, 31 March 2014 - 09:01 PM.

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#10 DoTheRightThingsRight

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:54 AM

I work for a major QSR in Canada. When we implemented hand sanitizer in our chain in preparation for the H1N1 pandemic back in 2009, we purposely decided NOT to place hand sanitizer in the washrooms. As previously posted, the fact is that soap will do the trick and should be encouraged. Instead we took our consumer's lead to place units only in common areas for convenient use, and kept costs as low as possible with this approach.

 

One scenario where hand sanitizer may be appropriate in a washroom would be as an added precaution during a Boil Water Advisory if the local Health Unit is in agreement with that approach based on the circumstances.



#11 Charles.C

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:44 AM

Dear All,

 

As far as the microbiological benefits are concerned of adding a custom hand sanitizer step or incorporating a  "sanitizer" in the basic soap, opinions do vary. Not so surprising if you think of all the possible scenarios involved. Nonetheless there is a reasonable consensus that worker contaminated hands are a major source of food poisoning events hence the encyclopedia of hand detergents with/without sanitisers.

 

Also have to consider  the basic necessity for "food grade-compatibility" as, from memory, is reflected in the USDA originated system of E-gradings where process line dip installations/workers are involved.

 

My previous link illustrated the control potential for a rather unheralded target (due virus detection difficulties) but which is now known to be a significant cause of many food poisoning incidents. The use of a boosted "soap" appeared to have definite advantages in such cases. No doubt pro/con data exists for other species and solo/mixed/dual systems.

 

Also not forget the more(?) routine procedure of inserting a hand/glove dip station/sanitizing solution  prior to employees entering processing areas. This is in truth an attempt at Failsafe and reflects a tacit acknowledgement of the basic difficulty of getting people to wash their hands in the bathroom at all. This observation is well validated by literature data and officially recommended paper "tricks" so as to  avoid direct hand contact with taps, surrounds, door handles etc. Some people regard this as paranoia, others as toilet101. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#12 cazyncymru

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

I struggle with the idea of hand sanitizers in the bathroom.

 

You should be rewashing your hands and sanitizing when you go into the production area. So what's the point in sanitizing, then theoretically 2 minutes later rewashing your hands and sanitizing?? waste of sanitizer if you ask me.

 

 

Caz x



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#13 GMO

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:06 AM

Morrisons used to ask for it in their standard but it doesn't seem to be there (unless I've missed it) in the new one.  Annoying really after we put all of the units in!



#14 Markcra

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:33 AM

I saw a recent program on TV where hand washing with soap was just as effective as using sanitiser. In Australia soap is required by the food standards.

 

Mark



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#15 Charles.C

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:17 AM

I saw a recent program on TV where hand washing with soap was just as effective as using sanitiser. In Australia soap is required by the food standards.

 

Mark

 

Does this mean that  Australians have a  tendency  to avoid both soap and sanitizers in the bathroom area ? :whistle:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#16 Markcra

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:31 AM

Yes under normal circumstances only soap is required for hand washing down under.



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#17 Charles.C

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:53 AM

Yes under normal circumstances only soap is required for hand washing down under.

 

I think you mean No and Yes but nonetheless very elegantly phrased if so intended. ;)

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#18 Ruhama

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:30 PM

Hi TIA

 

You can also sanitizer, us in our factory we are having both soap and sanitizer. but I also agree that it depends on the risk assessment you have.

 

Regards


Regards

Ruhama Thooko

Quality Assurance Coordinator

Highlands Trout (Pty) Ltd

Jehova Jire

 


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#19 Tony-C

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

Do you require a hand sanitizer unit in the employee bathroom?

 

Besides the units installed by processing areas.

TIA,

:mwah:

 

Typically I would expect to see soap, water, signs and drying (plus disposal means) in bathrooms, entry to production areas and in appropriate places in the production area (if a large area). Sanitizers are a bonus but also a requirement for high risk/high care food production areas.

 

Here are examples of requirements from some of the major food safety management system certification standards:

 

SQF Requirements
'11.3.2 Hand Washing
11.3.2.1 Hand wash basins shall be provided adjacent to all personnel access points and in accessible locations
throughout food handling and processing areas as required.
11.3.2.2 Hand wash basins shall be constructed of stainless steel or similar non-corrosive material and as a minimum supplied with:
i. A potable water supply at an appropriate temperature;
ii. Liquid soap contained within a fixed dispenser;
iii. Paper towels in a hands free cleanable dispenser; and
iv. A means of containing used paper towels.
11.3.2.3 The following additional facilities shall be provided in high risk areas:
i. Hands free operated taps; and
ii. Hand sanitizers.'


IFS Requirements:
'3.4.7 Hand washing facilities shall provide as a minimum:
– running potable water at an appropriate temperature
– liquid soap
– appropriate equipment for hand drying.
3.4.8 Where highly perishable food products are handled, the following
additional requirements regarding hand hygiene
shall also be provided:
– hand contact-free fittings
– hand disinfection
– adequate hygiene equipments
– signage highlighting hand hygiene requirements
– waste container with hand contact-free opening.'


BRC Requirements:
'4.8.4 On entry to high care areas hand washing and disinfection shall be provided.
4.8.4/4.8.5 Hand washing during the change procedure for high risk/high care areas.
4.8.6 Suitable and sufficient hand-washing facilities shall be provided at access to, and ....... provide as a minimum ...
Water...
Liquid soap
Single use towels or .......driers
Water taps with hand free.....
Advisory signs........
4.8.7
Toilets...............shall be provided with hand-washing facilities comprising:
Basins with soap and water....
Adequate drying...
Adisory signs.......
7.2.2
Hand cleaning on entry to the production area and at a frequency proportional to risk'


FSSC 22000 (ISO 22002) Requirements:
'13.2 Personnel hygiene facilities and toilets
Establishments shall:
a) provide ... means of hygienically washing, drying and, where required, sanitizing hands ...
b) have sinks designated for hand washing, whose taps should not be hand operated, ...
c) provide ..... toilets ...., each with hand-washing, drying and, where required, sanitizing facilities;
13.7 Personal cleanliness
Personnel in food production areas shall be required to wash and, where required, sanitize hands:
a) before starting any food-handling activities;
b) immediately after using the toilet or blowing the nose;
c) immediately after handling any potentially contaminated material.
'

 

Regards,

 

Tony



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#20 CaliforniaFS

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:13 PM

Thanks everyone.

I didn't add the hand sanitizer in the restrooms. Having them available before you walk into production and in production was fine for me.

The restrooms will remain the same, hand soap only.



#21 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:37 PM

The biggest problem I have with sanitizers anywhere there is soap is that inevitably someone gets the great idea that they don't really have to wash their hands when entering production because they can just sanitize and that's just as good right?  Wrong.

 

You can't sanitize something that is dirty you can only truly sanitize, with the expectation that bacterial load will be decreased, is if the surface is already clean.  If hands are washed properly then really you don't need to sanitize... but how often have you watched everyone wash their hands... Best bet is that they are not washing their hands long enough for them to be truly cleaned.

 

That being said I do like having hand sanitizers available in production for a quick re-kill step... but only if they are away from hand sinks... personally.


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#22 FoodSafety007

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:14 PM

In general hand sanitizers should be placed outside restrooms so that employees use them after washing hands. 



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#23 GMO

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:24 PM

Although effective handwashing is all that is required, it's all which should be required for entry to production areas too.  If I'm honest I wouldn't put the sanitisers up again if we hadn't had a retailer ask for it but now they're there, they're staying.  The thing is we all know people don't wash their hands effectively 100% of the time.  It's just belt and braces.



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