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Does FSSC 22000 have grades of Non-conformities?

FSSC Non-Conformity

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#1 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:44 PM

Call me crazy... but I don't see anywhere in the ISO or TS that actually describes what non-conformities FSSC prescribes and their description.  Am I missing something?  I even used the search feature and couldn't find the terms Major or Minor.

 

(Ok... Someone changed the title of this and I'm cool with that... I know that the auditor referenced different levels of non-conformities so I'm not really asking if there are different levels.  What I want to know is if anyone knows where they are actually written down what the levels are and what their description.  I was putting it into a training on non-conformities but when I went to find them... nothing.  I know in SQF they are in the front of the code but I don't see a listing in my ISO 22000 or my TS22002... which seems kind of sketchy that they will hold you to non-conformity titles and descriptions that aren't detailed in the code.


Edited by Mr. Incognito, 13 May 2014 - 01:35 PM.

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#2 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 02:47 PM

I should edit this post title to "Why I will actively argue people into certifying any other standard than FSSC 22000"

 

So... it's been a day and 100 and some odd views with nobody answering my question... and now I know why. Nobody has a clue because ISO is a company of hundreds of separate standards that all supposedly interconnect... and they all cost money.

 

I found a guidance update online for FSSC with the 2013 edition that actually defines a major and minor nonconformity as listed here: (The file I found was just posted online for free so if it was wrong to copy/paste please let me know)

 

· Major nonconformity: a nonconformity, as referred to in ISO/IEC 17021 clause

9.1.15b, that:

1) represents failure to fulfil one or more requirements of the management

system standard or

2) a situation that raises significant doubt about the clients system to achieve

its intended outputs.

 

· Minor nonconformity: other nonconformities as indicated in ISO/IEC 17021,

clause 9.1.15c.

 

 

However if you want to read IEC 17021 it will cost you... another $158.  So what the heck is a minor non-conformity??? only people who shell out the money will know.

 

Now let's take a look at SQF's code:

 

 

 

2.10 Non-conformities

 

 

 

Where the SQF auditor finds deviations from the requirements of relevant modules of the SQF Code, the auditor

shall advise the supplier of the number, description, and extent of the non-conformities. Non-conformities may

also be referred to as non-conformances. Non-conformities against the SQF Code shall be graded as follows:

 

 

A minor non-conformity is an omission or deficiency in the SQF System that produces unsatisfactory

conditions that if not addressed may lead to a risk to food safety and quality but not likely to cause a

System element breakdown.

 

A major non-conformity is an omission or deficiency in the SQF System producing unsatisfactory

conditions that carry a food safety or quality risk and likely to result in a System element breakdown.

 

A critical non-conformity is a breakdown of control(s) at a critical control point, a pre-requisite

program, or other process step and judged likely to cause a significant public health risk and/or where

product is contaminated.

 

A critical non-conformity is also raised if the supplier fails to take effective corrective action within the

timeframe agreed with the certification body, or if the certification body deems that there is systemic

falsification of records relating to food safety controls and the SQF System.

Critical non-conformities cannot be raised at desk audits.

Timelines for the resolution of corrective actions are addressed in Part A: 3.2 Facility Corrective Actions

 

Which standard would you want to be in?  The one that actually gives you all of the information FOR FREE or the one where you have to hunt and peck for the applicable information and when you find it all it does really is reference you to another costly document... 

 

I understand they really just exist to make money in the end... but what the heck!

 

 

:yeahrite:  :thumbdown:  :angry:  (there isn't a good fuming face like fire coming out or smoke with a po'd face... so imagine one here)

 

(and I realize that "For Free" isn't really true I'm not sure the face value cost of SQF audits vs FSSC Books / Audits is... but anyhow whatever)


Edited by Mr. Incognito, 13 May 2014 - 03:16 PM.

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#3 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:01 PM

Ok.  To very slightly walk back my angry tirade on an audit report we have it says on page 18 (at the back)

 

 


Definition of findings and conditions for handling of non-conformities

 

Definition of findings:

Major (Category 1):

  • The absence of one or more required system elements or a situation which raises significant doubt that products or services will meet specified requirements (serious or imminent threat to public health or a non-compliance with a food safety regulatory requirement)
  • A group of category 2 non-conformities indicating inadequate implementation or effectiveness of the system relevant to an element of the standard.
  • A category 2 non-conformity that is persistent (or not corrected as agreed by the organisation) shall be up-graded to category 1.

Minor (Category 2):
A lapse of either discipline or control during the implementation of system/procedural requirements, which does not indicate a system breakdown or raise doubt that products or services will meet requirements. Overall system requirement is defined, implemented and effective.

Observation
An observation is not a non-conformance, but something that could lead to a non-conformance, if allowed to continue uncorrected; or an existing condition without adequate supporting evidence to verify that it constitutes a non-conformance.

Opportunity for Improvement
Opportunities for improvement relates to areas and/or processes of the organisation which may meet the minimum requirement of the standard, but which could be improved.

 

However you still don't know any of this before they audit...


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#4 Snookie

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 04:32 PM

You are so smart that you didn't need the rest of us to answer your question.  :sleazy:  Seriously though, I have not worked with the FSC2200 very much, but your comments would mirror mine.  Everything costs and it seems to be overly complicated to me.  What I do find interesting is that more than a few big companies have started using it recently. 

 

Now deep breaths and go to your happy place (insert zen emoticon here). 


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#5 jonboy47

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

You are so smart that you didn't need the rest of us to answer your question.  :sleazy:  Seriously though, I have not worked with the FSC2200 very much, but your comments would mirror mine.  Everything costs and it seems to be overly complicated to me.  What I do find interesting is that more than a few big companies have started using it recently. 

 

Now deep breaths and go to your happy place (insert zen emoticon here). 

Just as a point of comparison, IFS also has a lot of free stuff posted like SQF does; while BRC charges for every little thing, both for the auditee and on the certifciation body end of things.  I just think it's interesting.  I haven't bothered looking into Primus' standard, or any of GFSI's other benchmarked standards.

 

Jon



#6 fgjuadi

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:51 AM

Call me crazy...

49888829.jpg


.--. .- -. - ... / --- .--. - .. --- -. .- .-..

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#7 Tony-C

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 03:55 AM

49888829.jpg

 

Yep, maybe we should have a forum where Incognito can post to himself.

 

:doh: we do: http://www.ifsqn.com...on-conformities/



#8 Mr. Incognito

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:18 AM

Don't tempt me.  I already talk to myself... you guys will actually think I'm crazy muhahahaha :silly:   :helpplease:


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